Asiana 777 hull loss at SFO

[albatross710]

Good comment piece:

A pilot's perspective on the Asiana crash | Asiana crash | SBS World News

What is really interesting for me is that both this accident and the Bali Lion Air incident is that in both cases the aircraft evacuation was required without forewarning. That's a good thing to consider next time I might consider leaving the lap belt loosely fastened.

 

[markis10]

So was the pilot with 43 hours on the B777 pilot in command?

Not confirmed, but i don't think so based on the evidence.

Answer is no, the check captain/instructor was PIC

The pilot in command of Asiana Airlines Flight 214, the Boeing 777-200ER that crashed on landing at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) July 6, told investigators that he assumed the aircraft’s auto-throttles were engaged and maintaining a speed of 137 knots as the 777 came in for a landing. The aircraft’s speed dropped to just 103 knots at the time of impact.
The commanding pilot was one of three pilots in the coughpit at the time of the crash, sitting in the right seat. He was serving as an instructor for the pilot flying the aircraft, sitting in the left seat, who was in the midst of training on the 777 after serving for eight years as an Airbus A320 captain for Asiana.

http://atwonline.com/safety/ntsb-as..._campaign=Feed:+AtwDailyNews+(ATW+Daily+News)

 

[harvyk]

Good comment piece:

A pilot's perspective on the Asiana crash | Asiana crash | SBS World News

Couldn't agree more, the amount of misinformation been sprouted by the so called "news" organisations which is then been changed without so much a note pointing to the correction is unbelievable. You can also tell that some of them are very disappointed that the death toll was only 2.

 

[Fruitcake]

What is really interesting for me is that both this accident and the Bali Lion Air incident is that in both cases the aircraft evacuation was required without forewarning. That's a good thing to consider next time I might consider leaving the lap belt loosely fastened.

The aircraft impacted with ground, pitched up to a 45-degree nose up position, went through a near-360 degree spin, and then slid to a stop.

You can leave your belt "loosely fastened" but don't expect any help from me on my way out if you get ejected from your seat and injured.

 

[Skyring]

You can leave your belt "loosely fastened" but don't expect any help from me on my way out if you get ejected from your seat and injured.

I dunno. There's only so much a lap belt can do, and if people weren't in their brace positions, they are going to get chucked around. Those pix of the cabin interior show that even the seats were thrown about, and those things are bolted down pretty solid.

I'm actually astonished that (almost) everyone got out safely and quickly. I'd be wanting a good lie down and some Panadol at that point, not actionman leap onto hot tarmac.

 

[harvyk]

Those pix of the cabin interior show that even the seats were thrown about, and those things are bolted down pretty solid.

Your not half wrong there, those seats are rated to be able to withstand a 16G impact. Whilst a 16G impact is certainly survivable, your not going to be in good shape after it and running for the exits is the last thing your body would really feel like doing. Luckily adrenaline kicks in and you can ignore little problems like serious injuries during the flight or fight stage.

 

[Fruitcake]

I dunno. There's only so much a lap belt can do, and if people weren't in their brace positions, they are going to get chucked around. Those pix of the cabin interior show that even the seats were thrown about, and those things are bolted down pretty solid.

Agreed, but the bolts on those seats (which you are strapped to) are still going to outperform the friction from your shoes on carpet or your pants on the seat.

Not to mention that it's a lot easier to release a tight seatbelt than a loose one.

 

[blackcat20]

Your not half wrong there, those seats are rated to be able to withstand a 16G impact. Whilst a 16G impact is certainly survivable, your not going to be in good shape after it and running for the exits is the last thing your body would really feel like doing. Luckily adrenaline kicks in and you can ignore little problems like serious injuries during the flight or fight stage.

They said the FA who helped evacuate everyone didnt realise till later that she'd broken her tail bone. Adrenaline does some pretty amazing things when you need it most.

 

[Skyring]

Agreed, but the bolts on those seats (which you are strapped to) are still going to outperform the friction from your shoes on carpet or your pants on the seat.

Not to mention that it's a lot easier to release a tight seatbelt than a loose one.

Well yes, but no matter how tight the belt, it's still only a lap belt and the rest of your body is effectively unrestrained. The middle might be tight as tight, but your feet and arms and head are at the mercy of physics. No shoulder belts, no airbags.

I think that instead of criticising injured passengers, many of us here would help them. Certainly that flight attendant was busting her cough carrying out injured passengers. Despite a busted cough.

 

[markis10]

No shoulder belts, no airbags.

Depending on the age of the aircraft air bags are a possibility, for the reasons you have specified, eg bulkhead seating in the new gen 738s.

 

[Flying High]

Certainly that flight attendant was busting her cough carrying out injured passengers. Despite a busted cough.

Gold!

 

[Fruitcake]

I think that instead of criticising injured passengers, many of us here would help them. Certainly that flight attendant was busting her cough carrying out injured passengers. Despite a busted cough.

Agreed, I was being overly facetious in my original comment. I like to think I would render as much aid as I could if placed in the circumstances, and I wouldn't be quizzing anyone on whether they had intentionally loosened their belt. My key point is that seriously considering consciously compromising one's attachment to the seat in an airplane which is pirouetting along the ground on its wingtip merely so one could undo their belt easier at the end of it all - especially when a loose belt is actually harder to undo - is not the best approach to take to accident preparedness.

Additionally, that loose belt has a better chance of coming off your hips and applying pressure where it will cause more damage. Hence, "make sure the belt sits low and tight across your hips."

 

[Skyring]

Additionally, that loose belt has a better chance of coming off your hips and applying pressure where it will cause more damage. Hence, "make sure the belt sits low and tight across your hips."

I know you were being a little jocular, and isn't it strange that we make these black jokes about serious subjects. A way of not thinking too deeply about our own fragility, I guess.

I always have my seatbelt buckled tight across my hips. I may not be landing on a carrier with an arrestor stop, but there's always the unexpected chance as the SFO crash shows. But it's not my job to go police everybody else on the plane. I try to leave the policing to those qualified and I worry about my own responsibilities. Such as they are.

On a different note, we're getting more information out, and looks like a lot of the early speculation has been wrong. Interviews with the pilots seem to be showing that they were anxious about lining up with the runway and they just assumed that the autothrottle was doing its job.

 

[mannej]

On a different note, we're getting more information out, and looks like a lot of the early speculation has been wrong. Interviews with the pilots seem to be showing that they were anxious about lining up with the runway and they just assumed that the autothrottle was doing its job.

Turkish 1951?

 

[oz_mark]

On a different note, we're getting more information out, and looks like a lot of the early speculation has been wrong. Interviews with the pilots seem to be showing that they were anxious about lining up with the runway and they just assumed that the autothrottle was doing its job.

Some of the early stuff I read on the incident referred to something called a 'FLCH trap'

For some discussion: Professional Pilots on the San Francisco Crash - James Fallows - The Atlantic

Bit unfortunate, but early speculation is oft wrong....

 

[markis10]

On a different note, we're getting more information out, and looks like a lot of the early speculation has been wrong. Interviews with the pilots seem to be showing that they were anxious about lining up with the runway and they just assumed that the autothrottle was doing its job.

What info specifically, if you mean engine issues that was discounted pretty quickly in general the day after when the tapes showed normal functionality and probably will be proved by PW soon enough. AFAIK the crew had just under minute when the PAPI would have been red, I would suggest what happened or did not happen in that last minute of flight in the coughpit will be the main focus moving forward.

 

[Foreigner]

When the airplane was on short final, surely the pilots would have been able to see indicator lighting on either side of threshold. Their basic training would have reminded them two sets of red lights meant they were too low...apply power to gain altitude.


ps:

White over white you'll fly all night
Red over white you're all right
Red over red you're dead

 

[RooFlyer]

Turkish 1951?

JB747 mused about that a day or so ago:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/travel-news/asiana-777-hull-loss-sfo-52003-16.html#post857464

 

[erkpod]

For the podcast fans out there, Capt Jeff has just released episode 74 of Airline Pilot Guy where he dedicates the episode to this crash. http://www.airlinepilotguy.com

 

[Boris spatsky]

More info about the flight here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/09/u...ndex.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

Of note, it was the instructor pilot's first flight as such.