Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever before!

[Berlin]

Part of this belongs into the "Special airfares" section but the issue actually goes further in my eyes so I post it here as an entire thread: The latest so-called "network wide" sale on Qantas offers great airfares to all the new EK locations if you want to fly in the back of the bus. For Business or First, where waiting for a Sale is much more important than in Economy if you fund it yourself, they only got LHR on special and nothing else in Europe!

And this has actually been the case since the new alliance has started- I as hoping for some special "Welcome to Emirates" sale but no- only for cattle class :evil: So given that they have axed Frankfurt entirely, this now actually offers less flexibility into Europe than before in any of the premium classes or do I miss something there? Don't understand me wrong- in principle I love the new arrangement and I was lucky enough to just trial it on a work-sponsored trip to Munich and back, our corporate fare did allow for all sorts of destinations in Europe. But if you're not Mr. Super-Rich and want to fund a half-ay comfortable trip to continental Europe yourself- then you seem out of luck!

So- what's the solution, do dodgy travel agents have access to those sales fares for more destinations than just LHR (at a whopping "service fee", no doubt)- is this what QF wants? Certainly not. Or is this on purpose? A matter of time until everything is sorted with the new EK alliance? As it stands currently, I can save 2k if I fly into LHR and then book separate BA (or, worse even, LCC) ticket to mainland Europe which totally defies the purpose of the new alliance. Or- and I usually am very loyal to Qantas- I can just book MH instead and fly into Paris via KUL

 

[markis10]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I dont know why you were expecting cheap fares on EK, there is no incentive for Qantas to fill a plane its not operating????

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I dont know why you were expecting cheap fares on EK, there is no incentive for Qantas to fill a plane its not operating????

Well, they advertise their great new one-stop destinations in Europe everywhere and very well include all those for Economy travel but if you're willing to fork out the money to fly Business, you actually have less choice than before given that FRA is gone. Does not make any sense to me whatsoever.

 

[markis10]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Well, they advertise their great new one-stop destinations in Europe everywhere and very well include all those for Economy travel but if you're willing to fork out the money to fly Business, you actually have less choice than before given that FRA is gone. Does not make any sense to me whatsoever.

They now advertise more destinations that you can fly to with a QF number, no mention that it will be cheaper, makes all the sense in the world, you dont work in the not for profit sector by chance?

 

[geordieladinoz]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I have to agree with Berlin that whilst not expecting cheap, cheap fares, I was expecting something to appear to entice the high end Qantas flyers.

However, getting OT, my frustration is lying in the establishment of the African network. Nearly 2 weeks ago EK codes finally appeared to Nairobi but still no sign of the QF codeshares. And even then, most of the EK flights when booking J produce the dreaded "!" stating that travel from DXB to NBO will be in Y! Seems to appear if connecting from QF1/2 rather than an EK flight.

Call going in to Qantas this weekend.

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

They now advertise more destinations that you can fly to with a QF number, no mention that it will be cheaper, makes all the sense in the world, you dont work in the not for profit sector by chance?

Oh don't you worry, I don't think the not for profit sector would send me on Qantas J on a work trip at all but maybe I'm wrong and that is what some charities REALLY spend their money on :shock: But to me it seems that your calculation is rather quite short-sighted from a commercial perspective: The current situation means that I am less enticed than ever to book a Qantas flight for my personal travel which means they are at risk to loose not only that one flight (which very well includes a Business class fare from Sydney to Dubai on Qantas so it's not as if there's nothing at all to gain directly for them here) but also my loyalty which might very well mean that future full-fare business trips might also go elsewhere. If this is QF's calculation and they're happy with it, so be it, I know that no one is entitled to any specials and that's not what I'm saying.

I was rather wondering whether this might be just a temporary issue as for Economy, they do include all the EK codeshares in their specials. Surely there must be times when SYD-DXB for example could sell a few more business seats even if it's only for certain dates etc? I for my part, could be swayed into a rather spontaneous trip over to Europe to see friends and family if a good offer comes up- money which I otherwise probably spend on something completely different. Just a lost chance really unless their flights are all full to the brim (and neither of them was a couple of weeks back when I had a little walk up the stairs into the J cabin...)

 

[markis10]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Oh don't you worry, I don't think the not for profit sector would send me on Qantas J on a work trip at all but maybe I'm wrong and that is what some charities REALLY spend their money on :shock: But to me it seems that your calculation is rather quite short-sighted from a commercial perspective: The current situation means that I am less enticed than ever to book a Qantas flight for my personal travel which means they are at risk to loose not only that one flight (which very well includes a Business class fare from Sydney to Dubai on Qantas so it's not as if there's nothing at all to gain directly for them here) but also my loyalty which might very well mean that future full-fare business trips might also go elsewhere. If this is QF's calculation and they're happy with it, so be it, I know that no one is entitled to any specials and that's not what I'm saying.

Its not my calculation as you state it, its Qantas and their strategy. You might be surprised what cabins not for profit execs fly in, I was asking the question because recently a senior Qantas executive was in a J cabin and given strong feedback from a passenger about how they should run the airline, on further digging it was established the passenger worked for a charity

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

on further digging it was established the passenger worked for a charity

I thought I might be wrong on this one :shock:

So Qantas strategy, yea? I wonder what business sense it makes to fly empty J seats around if you could flog them to someone like myself but that's something they will need to know.

As said before- I am not arguing that there is some kind of entitlement here, that would be silly. I am not even particularly keen to go to Europe as I've just been and already have one more trip in August coming up (that being on a US redemption seat on Thai- too good a deal not to make use of, loyalty to QF or not ). It's just a pity, as they could still get me to squeeze in another week long trip some time off-season in October or November if, let's say, MUC or HAM was available for 7k like LHR is.

 

[Fruitcake]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

So Qantas strategy, yea? I wonder what business sense it makes to fly empty J seats around if you could flog them to someone like myself but that's something they will need to know.

Fourteen months ago QF was flying five flights a day on their own metal into Europe.

Now they're flying two.

The empty J seats you want them to flog to you quite possibly just aren't there.

 

[MarcB]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I thought I might be wrong on this one :shock:

So Qantas strategy, yea? I wonder what business sense it makes to fly empty J seats around if you could flog them to someone like myself but that's something they will need to know.

As said before- I am not arguing that there is some kind of entitlement here, that would be silly. I am not even particularly keen to go to Europe as I've just been and already have one more trip in August coming up (that being on a US redemption seat on Thai- too good a deal not to make use of, loyalty to QF or not ). It's just a pity, as they could still get me to squeeze in another week long trip some time off-season in October or November if, let's say, MUC or HAM was available for 7k like LHR is.

Can i ask what dates you are seeing $7k? I can't price anything under 9.5k and E/F tells me LHR FRA and MUC all have the same fares.

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Can i ask what dates you are seeing $7k? I can't price anything under 9.5k and E/F tells me LHR FRA and MUC all have the same fares.

Well- that's what I was expecting, not much difference at all! The advertised special fare of 6999 SYD-LHR-SYD is available on almost any date in October and November. Actually- even over the Xmas holidays, surprising my mom with an unexpected visit would indeed entice me to make a booking if it was available to elsewhere in Europe...

 

[Anna]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I agree with the OP's point that EK does not cater to that part of the Australian market that does not want to be squashed up in cattle class on a very cheap fare yet also cannot fork out the full J fare (especially with the surcharge that it takes to earn QF SCs on the fares).

I think it's a gap that W class could fill if EK introduced it, but J sale fares would also be good. Otherwise that part of the market is going to look at other airlines apart from EK.

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

The empty J seats you want them to flog to you quite possibly just aren't there.

Yea- if that was the case, I would fully understand. But two weeks ago, there were plenty of empty J seats on QF between SYD/MEL and DXB and on the EK bit, one flight to MUC was admittedly full but in the other direction there were at least 15 seats left empty. A work colleague flew in and out of Manchester with EK and told me that the Business cabin was only half full both ways (they are all A380 destinations so no big surprise here). I know that's only n=2 so who knows but obviously QF is happy to sell sale seats between SYD to DXB on many dates but just if you continue on to London, that's the bit which doesn't really fit the assumption that there are simply no seats.

 

[Mal]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Qantas and Emirates have not yet agreed on premium fares to destinations other than Dubai and Asia. So no joint sale. This will change in the future.

 

[markis10]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Qantas and Emirates have not yet agreed on premium fares to destinations other than Dubai and Asia. So no joint sale. This will change in the future.

Europe inc UK were agreed late last month:

Australia to the United Kingdom (Premium Cabins)
Australia to Europe (Premium Cabins)
Australia to Singapore (all Cabins)
Australia to Kuala Lumpur (all Cabins)

 

[Mal]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Europe inc UK were agreed late last month:

Australia to the United Kingdom (Premium Cabins)
Australia to Europe (Premium Cabins)
Australia to Singapore (all Cabins)
Australia to Kuala Lumpur (all Cabins)

Aah, yes. 29th April. Hadn't noticed that. Perhaps the current sale didn't include them due to timing constraints, or there are other reasons.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

I'm with berlin on this. A key 'selling point' of the QF/EK alliance was "One-stop (DXB) into Europe". Great - I'm on board, I'll even go out of my way to avoid LHR. But ...

I only travel J (both work and leisure) and I don't need to fly QF every time, so fares play a part in selection. AY has some terrific fares into Europe via HEL at the moment, Two stops, but the $$ tick the boxes for me for a holiday into eastern Europe, and I still get QF points and SCs. I also need to go to North Africa for work - amazing that QR is offering great prices there at the moment. Doha here I come (again).

So, as berlin said - where are the J sale fares for QF/EK? I suspect they have looked at their loads and yield management has said no need for J sale fares at the moment, so I hope that they will appear later. Otherwise its a dead loss for me.

Oh, and markis10, maybe I mis-understood the point you are making:

I dont know why you were expecting cheap fares on EK, there is no incentive for Qantas to fill a plane its not operating????

... but what's the point of the alliance again?

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

ps berlin Give your TA a call. They can get great fares on the likes of AY and LH (.. urk ! for you possibly ...) including feeder flights to SIN/HKG on QF. I don't think you can put these together without a TA, or maybe the airline direct.

I guess it depends on the TA, but IF there is a mark-up (and with mine, there isn't anything material), then you get the value by them using their time to do the fare hunting and booking, plus changing or getting you out of the poo when the airline changes/cancels on you mid trip.

 

[Berlin]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

ps berlin Give your TA a call. They can get great fares on the likes of AY and LH

Yea, I will indeed do this next time I want to see my family over there. And you're very correct, you rather see me dead than on long haul LH

 

[markis10]

Re: Now Qantas is allies with Emirates- and seems more London-centred than ever befor

Oh, and markis10, maybe I mis-understood the point you are making:


... but what's the point of the alliance again?

The point of the alliance is to give people more options to fly a QF flight number that QF does not have to pay empty seats for, and to also capture inbound traffic. You don't often see a sale on Codeshares when there is not one done by the carrier whose metal is actually operating the flight.