Brisbane Airport delays to increase with runway closure.

[markis10]

Word out this morning is the cross runway will be closed for 5 months while work is undertaken on preparations for the new parallel runway, while the airport claims its only 23 flights a day that use the runway, I suspect it will be missed !


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...se-flight-delays/story-e6freoof-1226439830335

Brisbane Airport's existing runways, and the proposed parallel runway. Source: Supplied



PLANE delays plaguing Brisbane at night are set to get worse and extend into the day as the airport closes its cross runway for five months.

Brisbane Airport Corporation said the 20-week closure from September was needed to undertake critical preliminary works ahead of construction of the new parallel runway.
Although only 23 flights a day take off and land on the cross runway, adding those flights to the main runway's schedule will mean a take-off or landing every three minutes across all but six hours of each day.
Consultations have been ongoing with airlines and Air Services Australia about how to best manage the closure which will impact heavily on the hectic Christmas holiday period.
Longer delays are also expected to mean an increase in parking revenue for BAC which last year collected almost $85 million in parking fees, or $232,417 a day.

 

[Major]

Another reason to fly from OOL where possible

 

[Pleb Status]

I can only remember using the cross runway on one occasion in/out of BNE (out of more than 150 flights over the years).

I assume it is only generally used by non jet aircraft. I think the taxiway is limited to A320 sized aircraft from memory.

 

[Major]

The only time I have landed on this runway was from ROK, I think an E190

 

[serfty]

I can only remember using the cross runway on one occasion in/out of BNE (out of more than 150 flights over the years).

I assume it is only generally used by non jet aircraft. I think the taxiway is limited to A320 sized aircraft from memory.

I have landed on it several times on DH3/SH6, notably just the once when travelling on a 734.

 

[iRobbo]

The delays come from fitting all the traffic that would normally use it the cross runway (mainly non-jet) into the sequence for Runway 01. Starts to back it up a bit, so you will definately feel the pain

 

[QLD'r]

This is a dam pain.. Every Friday night for the last few weeks I have spent between 20 and 40 mins going around in bloody circles... MEL-BNE is now a full 3 hour flight. I just can't understand how BNE management failed this so badly. Surely someone's head must roll for this.. Must be costing QF,VA, etc a fortune every week night

 

[Willy]

Friday night?? Try every week night - have a look at Flight Radar in the early evening and see the disgrace that is Brisbane Airport. Correct me if I am wrong, but AJ was reported last week as saying that he thought the Year 2020 was too early for a 2nd main runway - obviously he isn't kept abreast of the delays his planes endure each night, or QF don't particularly care - either way, a stupid statement. I know it frustrates the DJ pilots - they are apologetic and forewarn at the commencement of each flight that delays are likely. BNE should never have been sold by the Feds whilst in an incomplete state - the greed at that airport is palpable.

 

[N860CR]

It's an absolute disgrace and I can't believe the airlines are putting up with it (they're the only ones with the power to make BAC/ASA do something more drastic to fix it). A NOTAM is in place for 50 minutes holding fuel during the evenings now and, quite frequently, every minute of it is being used. It would be a brave person to book a connection of less than 90 minutes on a weekday evening (MCT for QF is 35). The airlines have been spending a fortune putting up displaced pax in hotels of late.

 

[anat0l]

It's an absolute disgrace and I can't believe the airlines are putting up with it (they're the only ones with the power to make BAC/ASA do something more drastic to fix it). A NOTAM is in place for 50 minutes holding fuel during the evenings now and, quite frequently, every minute of it is being used. It would be a brave person to book a connection of less than 90 minutes on a weekday evening (MCT for QF is 35). The airlines have been spending a fortune putting up displaced pax in hotels of late.

What can the airlines do?

Stop flying to BNE? Fat chance. They can't all fly to OOL instead, or Archerfield.

Complain to the government? How about putting out a bushfire by spitting on it?

Withhold payments to BNE (e.g. airport charges)? Get real.

Give money to BNE so BAC can pay the development in advance? Well, that's what BAC want (from the articles this week), but that's damn extortion what BAC are doing. And giving the money to BAC upfront now is no guarantee that BAC will do anything in any appreciable period of time in the near future.


It's really up to the governments to do something and kick BAC into gear, but knowing our gutless powers-that-are-supposed-to-be I have my doubts.

 

[N860CR]

The airlines are the biggest spenders in the industry and generally can get what they want. Australian governments have proven time and time again that they really don't care about the aviation sector and rarely do a thing to assist (the opposite is usually the case). They're the best positioned party to have an impact... how, I don't know, but something needs to be done as the current arrangement isn't sustainable until 2020.

 

[samh004]

This is a dam pain.. Every Friday night for the last few weeks I have spent between 20 and 40 mins going around in bloody circles... MEL-BNE is now a full 3 hour flight. I just can't understand how BNE management failed this so badly. Surely someone's head must roll for this.. Must be costing QF,VA, etc a fortune every week night

Friday night?? Try every week night - have a look at Flight Radar in the early evening and see the disgrace that is Brisbane Airport. Correct me if I am wrong, but AJ was reported last week as saying that he thought the Year 2020 was too early for a 2nd main runway - obviously he isn't kept abreast of the delays his planes endure each night, or QF don't particularly care - either way, a stupid statement. I know it frustrates the DJ pilots - they are apologetic and forewarn at the commencement of each flight that delays are likely. BNE should never have been sold by the Feds whilst in an incomplete state - the greed at that airport is palpable.

It's an absolute disgrace and I can't believe the airlines are putting up with it (they're the only ones with the power to make BAC/ASA do something more drastic to fix it). A NOTAM is in place for 50 minutes holding fuel during the evenings now and, quite frequently, every minute of it is being used. It would be a brave person to book a connection of less than 90 minutes on a weekday evening (MCT for QF is 35). The airlines have been spending a fortune putting up displaced pax in hotels of late.

I was pretty sure the delays faced on weeknights isn't because of work done to the cross runway, but because the cross runway doesn't have the right lighting/there was an issue that forced them to close it when it gets dark. That's entirely different to the runway being closed completely I thought?

I've used it just the once, couldn't work out where I was landing until I realised we were using the cross.

 

[N860CR]

The crossing runway is now closed day and night while works on the parallel runway are underway. This is a fairly recent change (in the last 4 weeks).

 

[anat0l]

The airlines are the biggest spenders in the industry and generally can get what they want. Australian governments have proven time and time again that they really don't care about the aviation sector and rarely do a thing to assist (the opposite is usually the case). They're the best positioned party to have an impact... how, I don't know, but something needs to be done as the current arrangement isn't sustainable until 2020.

If the airlines generally get what they want, then they aren't exactly demanding a lot of the host airports which we often whine about, so either they suck at making demands or they just don't have that kind of power. Regarding the latter argument, I think it's the companies operating the airports which hold the ball.

In any case, precisely what I said - what can the airlines do? Had there been two airports servicing BNE of comparable standards (and owned by different companies), airlines could possibly shift operations and/or play the airports against each other.

 

[Sprucegoose]

This is a dam pain.. Every Friday night for the last few weeks I have spent between 20 and 40 mins going around in bloody circles... MEL-BNE is now a full 3 hour flight. I just can't understand how BNE management failed this so badly. Surely someone's head must roll for this.. Must be costing QF,VA, etc a fortune every week night

Certainly on the SYD/MEL route you wont take off until you have a slot at the other end. I presume they are not doing that with BNE.

Is that not a tad inefficient?

 

[N860CR]

Brisbane only allocate slots to aircraft departing within 150NM of the airport. Everyone else just rocks up and gets allocated a time when they're approaching. It's very frustrating from the crews point of view as you might power on in as fast as you can and then, when 100NM of so away, get told to slow down or hold at Maleny for x number of minutes. ATC have advised that they don't currently have the facility to lock in a landing time when an aircraft is still on the ground at the departure point (unlike SYD). It's very frustrating for everyone.

 

[QLD'r]

Certainly on the SYD/MEL route you wont take off until you have a slot at the other end. I presume they are not doing that with BNE.

Is that not a tad inefficient?

Correct - but not for BNE... aside from the usual QF delay, we would take off as normal, than join the holding pattern... pilots would even advise us before take-off that we would likely join the circle for some time. VA is the same. Such a waste of fuel!

 

[samh004]

The crossing runway is now closed day and night while works on the parallel runway are underway. This is a fairly recent change (in the last 4 weeks).

Ahh, but prior to the complete closure, there was still an issue arriving on weeknights, which was to do with an entirely different issue (with the cross runway). So if you couldn't land on the cross runway previously past a certain point, nothing has changed, other than perhaps a build-up throughout the day if they're not careful.

 

[markis10]

Brisbane only allocate slots to aircraft departing within 150NM of the airport. Everyone else just rocks up and gets allocated a time when they're approaching. It's very frustrating from the crews point of view as you might power on in as fast as you can and then, when 100NM of so away, get told to slow down or hold at Maleny for x number of minutes. ATC have advised that they don't currently have the facility to lock in a landing time when an aircraft is still on the ground at the departure point (unlike SYD). It's very frustrating for everyone.

All airports have slots and apply them in the flow, what you are talking about it a ground delay program, which is only in effect at SYD and PER. GDPs help but they are not perfect, the current delays at Brisbane are not huge by comparison to Sydney prior to the third runway being built. No one system can be flexible enough to ensure no one gets delayed, when there are temporary issues like a runway closure, it does make sense to change the rules significantly. The other issue you have with GDPs is gate space, if you have the gates full with planes waiting start clearance, then you will have more delays with aircraft waiting for a gate, whether its up in the air or on the ground, a wait is a wait.