Call me Doctor

[rechoboam]

Agreed on this - it's essentially impossible not to "volunteer". Barring major incapacity for whatever reason.

FWIW I switched to using "Doctor" on QF due to issues with my FF points not crediting as work bookings book as DR when the FF profile was MR and it never credited properly requiring me to call to fix all the time. Now everything is DR and there's less crediting issues. The op-up gods dont really seemed to have noticed the change though.

I seem to have a decent strike rate of that overhead page happening on my flights. Or most recently, a personal "announcement" that they were sorry the service was a bit haphzard in J, but they had a sick pax in Y , followed by the loooong pause waiting for my "would you like some help" response. As opposed to just outright asking.

That means you weren't asked, but volunteered your services. Leaving yourself open to litigation in multiple jurisdictions (at least in theory). Even if you feel you want to volunteer, you should tell them they have to call for assistance first. Was the ground medical team managing this before and/or after you assisted? They should have been.

 

[Dyslexic traveler]

Hi rechboamYes the ground staff met the plain but the women was ambulatory and left under her own steam at for liability in this country there are protections for Doctors know as good Samaritan laws that allow us to offer assistance and our medical indemnity insurance also covers this, there are a number of things that you have instilled in you when you do medicine 1. After you graduate it is your duty to work part of your time in the public system (at a very low remuneration) not that I'm complaining it's what we should do 2. That we assist in the training of others in our craft groups and with medical students 3. That you should render assistance to all in need on a plan in the street I have on a number of occasions done this and would hope that if it was me some one would step in to help and it's my experience they a do So I worry more about the type of champagne in the F lounge and on the plan than I do being Sued A Prof once told me it's not if you get sued it's when and that's what we pay MIPPS all the money so they can get me a good lawyer

 

[Favfern]

It amazes me that FAs these days could make the assumption that any PAX with 'Dr' on the manifest is a medico. Surely the chances are that PhDs outnumber medicos on flights - or is this the reason for long waiting lists for medical attention? :mrgreen:

Maybe I can schedule my next specialist appointment in the J cabin (or F if the upgrade comes through ) of QF11 SYD-LAX on 20 August?

Back in 1967 when I did my training as a Qantas flight steward, we were all taught how to deliver babies in an emergency (maybe there weren't as many medicos flying in those days). The training consisted of watching a VERY vivid film of an actual child birth followed by a tough old nursing sister from the Qantas Medical Center at Mascot telling us, "Now boys, don't worry about this too much, because if you are unlucky enough to have one of your passengers give birth, she will be so"premmie" that the bub will just pop out into your hands"! Very reassuring indeed! As to medical assistance in-flight, I hope that if I am ever unlucky enough to have a heart attack at 40,000 feet, the doctor on board will be my daughter (a qualified Emergency Medicine specialist) rather than my dermatologist --- as good as he is with with my solar keratoses!

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

A friend ( a Mr Dr ) attended a cardiac patient on a recent International Flight. CPR and all that stuff, restored the patient to life
and eventually accompanied patient off the A/c to the Clinic in the Terminal. As he had been vomited on he thought he would attend
the F lounge and clean up, explained the situation to the important person at the lounge door. As he was not flying in F he was not allowed entry. Requested a pen and paper and submitted an account to the airline for $5,000 for emergency treatment. Amazingly the doors to the F Lounge opened !.
I understand from other Medicos that lots of airlines are often "shaby" in their treatment (no pun intended ) of Drs who assist.
To me an upgrade for saving a life would seem the least an airline could do !

 

[aliens]

I've got a PhD and I use Dr when I travel (and on everything else)...if they want to treat me better because of it then I'm not complaining...but I'm no good in a medical emergency...

Completely agree. I was very proud of finally getting my thesis in and getting my PhD and putting Dr on my Qantas profile and credit card. PhD are the real doctors anyway. I do medical research, have level 2 firts aid and at a pinch could probalby assist in an emergency on a plane as much as a medico..... I mainly put it on with the hope of an occasional upgrade. Us poor scientist unlike MBBS usually can't afford biz

if you are all laughing about titles why are you quick to show your Q status on this forum, etc?

 

[docjames]

That means you weren't asked, but volunteered your services. Leaving yourself open to litigation in multiple jurisdictions (at least in theory). Even if you feel you want to volunteer, you should tell them they have to call for assistance first. Was the ground medical team managing this before and/or after you assisted? They should have been.

I realise I 'volunteered" but really wasnt in much position not to. Clearly I was the only Dr on the flight.

Whilst you're open to litigation, its both rare for it to get that far, and mostly unless you do something really reckless you are covered by Good Samaritan Act (at least in Australia). Most MDOs will also cover you in addition. I'd also help first and worry about the litigation afterwards (and hope I hadnt done something reckless!).

There was no sign of any ground discussion until after I had fed back to the CSM (who then spoke to the Captain) what I thought was going on and at that stage as far as I'm aware the Captain spoke to ground support. They asked for my recommendation regarding diversion but did tell me "it's up to the captain" who no doubt would have also discussed the situation with their (ground) medical support. FWIW I said dont divert - the 10 mins difference wasnt going to make any difference in the situation.

The thing that was modestly annoying about the whole thing was I'd used up a good chunk of FF points on J seating and spent 75% of the flight kneeling on the floor of the Y cabin. Managed to cram in some food shortly before descent but unsurprisingly didnt really feel like eating. No letter or acknowedgement officially from QF about any of it which makes me feel somewhat taken for granted. I have the feeling they'd have diverted if i hadnt been there to assess things, but we'll never know the answer there. I certainly dont want any form of payment but at least an official thank you might have been nice.

 

[Dyslexic traveler]

Yes I can say James, that I two would have been pissed off if I had used my points, and if I had not received a thank you letter at the very least. I would have sent an account for my time with a note offering to wave the fee if Qantas at least Acknowledged my assistance next time perhaps.

 

[drron]

I realise I 'volunteered" but really wasnt in much position not to. Clearly I was the only Dr on the flight.

Whilst you're open to litigation, its both rare for it to get that far, and mostly unless you do something really reckless you are covered by Good Samaritan Act (at least in Australia). Most MDOs will also cover you in addition. I'd also help first and worry about the litigation afterwards (and hope I hadnt done something reckless!).

There was no sign of any ground discussion until after I had fed back to the CSM (who then spoke to the Captain) what I thought was going on and at that stage as far as I'm aware the Captain spoke to ground support. They asked for my recommendation regarding diversion but did tell me "it's up to the captain" who no doubt would have also discussed the situation with their (ground) medical support. FWIW I said dont divert - the 10 mins difference wasnt going to make any difference in the situation.

The thing that was modestly annoying about the whole thing was I'd used up a good chunk of FF points on J seating and spent 75% of the flight kneeling on the floor of the Y cabin. Managed to cram in some food shortly before descent but unsurprisingly didnt really feel like eating. No letter or acknowedgement officially from QF about any of it which makes me feel somewhat taken for granted. I have the feeling they'd have diverted if i hadnt been there to assess things, but we'll never know the answer there. I certainly dont want any form of payment but at least an official thank you might have been nice.

Apart from the fact I was in paid J my QF experience was exactly the same.

 

[Rate]

On a fairly recent flight of ours (HKG-LHR), a call for assistance came over the PA and my wife responded.
Out of the 5 people who attended, she was deemed the most capable (at the time she was an Emergency Registrar).
Ironically, 2 of the people who put their hands up were not even medically trained (one was a Psychologist).

The pax in question was on a spinal board on their way home to London and started to hyper-ventilate and lose colour as we took off.
This caused the travelling nurse to get worried and hence the med-call.

Anyway, she was able to settle the patient but not before being asked by the CSM if it were serious enough to warrant turning the plane around.
I'd hate think of the cost that would have entailed but fortunately she was happy enough with the patient's condition and said we'd be fine to continue.

FWIW we ended up receiving a $300 Qantas voucher in the mail a few months later... not as good as a J upgrade but better than nothing.

 

[drron]

On a fairly recent flight of ours (HKG-LHR), a call for assistance came over the PA and my wife responded.
Out of the 5 people who attended, she was deemed the most capable (at the time she was an Emergency Registrar).
Ironically, 2 of the people who put their hands up were not even medically trained (one was a Psychologist).

The pax in question was on a spinal board on their way home to London and started to hyper-ventilate and lose colour as we took off.
This caused the travelling nurse to get worried and hence the med-call.

Anyway, she was able to settle the patient but not before being asked by the CSM if it were serious enough to warrant turning the plane around.
I'd hate think of the cost that would have entailed but fortunately she was happy enough with the patient's condition and said we'd be fine to continue.

FWIW we ended up receiving a $300 Qantas voucher in the mail a few months later... not as good as a J upgrade but better than nothing.

Sounds like the psychologist would have been the more appropriate!

 

[Dyslexic traveler]

docJames was looking at your profile photo scrubs after watching the show a couple of time its a little like the house of god.

 

[Dyslexic traveler]

Why work hard drron when you can get the registrar to do it lol

 

[Noob]

docJames was looking at your profile photo scrubs after watching the show a couple of time its a little like the house of god.

Love that book, I swear I haven't met a medico that hasn't read it - Have you heard of 'scutmonkey'? Med comics written by an american "anesthesiologist", they are fantastic

 

[blackcat20]

Completely agree. I was very proud of finally getting my thesis in and getting my PhD and putting Dr on my Qantas profile and credit card. PhD are the real doctors anyway. I do medical research, have level 2 firts aid and at a pinch could probalby assist in an emergency on a plane as much as a medico..... I mainly put it on with the hope of an occasional upgrade. Us poor scientist unlike MBBS usually can't afford biz

Mines a genetics PhD...so the best I can offer is a DNA test

 

[rechoboam]

A few points: i agree ethically you need to volunteer. However if you are on a repectable airline you should always ensure they ask you even if you have to ask them to formally request your services, and you should always get them to contact ground support. Very few doctors have enough experience in assessing whether its worth spending $100k on a diversion over the Pacific for a panic attack, but the ground medical team are paid to decide (with info from on board medicos).

Good Samaritan laws have their limits and dont apply if you are paid. Nor if you do something reckless or totally outside your training. Be very cautious about sending a bill. However I agree if I ended up in Y on a J ticket due to the emergency I would consider asking for the points back. Unfortunately I dont think there is a solution really. And what if youve had a couple of glasses of red before the call goes up?

 

[simonsyd]

The thing that was modestly annoying about the whole thing was I'd used up a good chunk of FF points on J seating and spent 75% of the flight kneeling on the floor of the Y cabin. Managed to cram in some food shortly before descent but unsurprisingly didnt really feel like eating. No letter or acknowedgement officially from QF about any of it which makes me feel somewhat taken for granted. I have the feeling they'd have diverted if i hadnt been there to assess things, but we'll never know the answer there. I certainly dont want any form of payment but at least an official thank you might have been nice.

Was this recent? There is a system in place at QF - all medical incidents onboard are reviewed, help by doctors onboard is identified (and reviewed by medical professionals) the details of the doctors involved (if available) is passed on for follow up. In some instances you may even get a call from one of the company doctors!
FWIW on QF i travel as a Mr (that was QFs choice)

 

[docjames]

Was this recent? There is a system in place at QF - all medical incidents onboard are reviewed, help by doctors onboard is identified (and reviewed by medical professionals) the details of the doctors involved (if available) is passed on for follow up. In some instances you may even get a call from one of the company doctors!
FWIW on QF i travel as a Mr (that was QFs choice)

Boxing day 2010. They took my BP "for the paperwork". Never heard a thing.

To be explicity clear: I dont want any compensation (I have training, no-one else aboard had equivalent/better) so it's fine.

A simple thank you would have been nice.

And I agree with rechoboam :to ask for payment = to ask for liability.

And part of the reason to ask for "volunteer" to in case you are incapacitated and to avoid liability on the airlines behalf ("you forced me to assist when I was incapacitated"). IMO.

 

[samiam]

I do medical research, have level 2 firts aid and at a pinch could probalby assist in an emergency on a plane as much as a medico.....

I'm assuming the above is tongue in cheek.........

Seriously, there are too many medical shows on tele nowadays that make emergency work look easy.

 

[rechoboam]

I'm assuming the above is tongue in cheek.........

Seriously, there are too many medical shows on tele nowadays that make emergency work look easy.

Given that all they have on board is basically an automated defibrillator (if that) and some sedatives they may well have a point.

 

[docjames]

Given that all they have on board is basically an automated defibrillator (if that) and some sedatives they may well have a point.

I'm not sure where you've got your info from but on qf at least they have a huge variety of drugs and equipment. Far more than "some sedatives". From 1st hand experience. Domestic.