Changes coming to domestic flight check-in

[ejb]

Hi all,

Just seen on www.smh.com.au

Will this end NGCI? or will we have a second check prior to boarding?

Will be interesting given the current lack of human contact at airports.

Domestic flight crackdown

PASSENGERS will be required to produce photo identification before boarding domestic flights as part of the biggest recommended overhaul of airport and maritime security since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the US.

ejb

 

[serfty]

Note these are a series of recommendations - at this stage there is no guarantee they will be taken up wholly, partially or at all.

There would be plenty of push back / lobbying on this.

 

[pauly7]

Meh, at worst an ID check stage by floating staff or at gate.

 

[ejb]

Meh, at worst an ID check stage by floating staff or at gate.

It may not seem like a big deal, but 200+ ID checks at the gate will add considerable time to any boarding line.

As they are just ideas for the time being I do hope the airlines fight hard on this.

ejb

 

[equus]

Will this end NGCI? or will we have a second check prior to boarding?

If it is truly intended to check the id of those flying, it would have to be at the gate - not at checkin or any earlier. Otherwise there would be no guarantee that the person whose id was checked was the one who got on the plane.

It would not have to delay the boarding, but significant work would be required at the airport to avoid that. Dedicated gate lounges with id check on entry (like SIN international etc) would enable checking of those boarding a particular flight. The cost (and even feasibility) of doing that is not likely to lead to it occuring, so checking each person as the boarding pass is scanned would be most likely.

NGCI technology may indirectly allow this to be implemented efficiently. As the use of a QFF chip card as a "boarding pass" is now possible, the system is in place to link a form of id to a flight and seat. Allowing a Passport or Driver's License (or other photo id reference - Australia card anyone?) to be used would simply require the ability to scan / acquire the id number for that document. So present your photo-id at the gate for scanning as your "boarding pass". Only slow down is for the photo to be checked.

 

[harvyk]

However, the committee is believed to have rejected Qantas's view, suggesting those unable to provide photo ID should produce a signed statutory declaration confirming their identity before boarding.

​

Seriously, on what planet do these people live on?

Yes, signing a false declaration is an offence, where you can get 2 years jail if discovered.
But if I'm about to blow up an airliner, the last thing I really care about is the 2 years jail incase I got caught with a false stat dec... Again, if I was using the flight for other illegal purposes (eg moving drugs around), I'd be more worried about getting caught for the illegal purposes than a false stat dec...

The report is also expected to examine the role of the ''trusted insider'' working inside transport hubs on behalf of criminal networks.

Again, without a criminal record, and without gross violation of privacy, how are they going to catch the "trusted insider".

Given that this is targetted to domestic airports only, and given that every domestic mainland location can be easily reached by car, it wouldn't stop any illegal trade, it would simply direct it to other methods...

Also yes, there have been hi-jackings in Australia, however for the most part they have been carried out by crazed individuals who saw an opportunity, rather than terrorist organisations with a motive.

 

[medhead]

There was already a thread about the police [association] submission to this enquiry and these recommendations seem to pick up on the points from that submission. My recollection is the submission was almost totally about policing illegal activity and not about airline security. Although it many have been put in terms of airline security. The situation with the bikies in Sydney may have helped create the impression that illegal activity is related to airport security.

Generally senate enquiries are almost entirely pointless and make stupid recommendations that ignore reality. The trouble is the senate then tries to act on those recommendations. [having had to deal with a senate enquiry in a past life]

Anyway, another step towards the police state.

 

[williamsf1]

I have just been reading the Inquiry into the adequacy of aviation and maritime security measures to combat serious and organised crime report (138pages)

The recommendation would be "The committee is therefore recommends that the passenger's identity be checked at the point of embarkation, at the gate lounge. This would require passengers to display valid photo-identification that matched the name printed on their boarding pass immediately prior to boarding the plane"

"The committee is of the view that this identity check should be undertaken by a government official, ideally a government security officer as provided for in recommendation . Such a scheme would also require a mechanism by which passengers that do not have identification can still travel on an aircraft"

Another recommendation would be to only allow traveling passengers past the security . This is recommended to reduce the lines and number of people processed. I noticed that Sydney airports had a bit to say about that , as they have turned departure lounges into shopping centers!!

Do people really think that this will make the world a safer place ?

 

[openseat]

It is unbelievable that they are trying to bring this into Australia. After all if you are a terrorist and you're going to blow yourself to bits, showing your id is hardly a disincentive!!

I really hope flying here doesn't become like it is in the US.

 

[mannej]

It may not seem like a big deal, but 200+ ID checks at the gate will add considerable time to any boarding line.

As they are just ideas for the time being I do hope the airlines fight hard on this.

ejb

With adequate communication I have never seen it as an issue (i.e boarding pass and passport before you can board).

 

[medhead]

After all if you are a terrorist and you're going to blow yourself to bits, showing your id is hardly a disincentive!!

except this is about serious and organised crime not terrorists.

 

[dfcatch]

It's not an issue.

After 9/11, in the USA you had to show drivers licence and boarding pass and it was easy. It's still easy.

It could be done here very easily.

Only difference is that non-travelling pax can enter the secure area here.

 

[dajop]

It could be done here very easily.

Sure it can be done easily. There is a cost though, you have to pay someone to do that checking. At what cost? Is the benefit worth the cost? To do it properly you need some protection against fraudulent ID as well (which they do have in the US). Frankly if it's targetted at the criminal element in society, I am sure convincing fake photo ID's are not that difficult to produce for that part of society.

Where do we draw the line? Have border ID & vehicle checks when crossing state boundaries in car to prevent interstate smuggling? Require ID checks for people boarding suburban trains in case they are terrorists?

 

[pshepvic]

I believe that no-one should be allowed through security unless they are flying. We are one of the few places in the world where this is the case. I don't believe it would be a significant cost to implement either. With less people going through security, you would need less staff to process people through security and they could redistribute those extra staff to check IDs at the start of security. Works fine in the US - only takes 10 seconds to check ID and most of the time it takes you longer than that to queue up anyway so wouldn't increase the length of time overall at security.

There are other benefits of reducing the number of people in the departures area. Less crowding at the gates, so there would be enough seats for everyone flying. There would be less crowding in the lounges.

I think it would make for a more pleasant experience.

I also find it ridiculous that currently anyone can board a flight in Australia without having their ID checked at all. Whether they do this for the right reasons (passenger security) or the wrong reason (reduce organised crime or whatever was mentioned previously) i don't really care, as it's been along time coming.

 

[Saab34]

What Tiger have been doing is have a ground staff member checking ID's against boarding passes at the gate lounge, and cross over their name with a highlighter so when it comes to boarding time, say 95% of webcheckin passes have been checked.

Of course TT have made this easier by stating boarding commences 45 mins prior to departure on the webcheckin pass (when it really starts at about 20mins), so the majority of folks are at the gate which makes the whole process faster.

 

[ozmille]

With adequate communication I have never seen it as an issue (i.e boarding pass and passport before you can board).

Same for flights in Europe, you have to show photo ID and boarding pass to get inside the terminal and then again when boarding.

 

[Nigelinoz]

I also find it ridiculous that currently anyone can board a flight in Australia without having their ID checked at all.

What I find a bit more ridiculous is that when I check in at ABX for my regular REX flight to MEL the check in agent always asks to see photo ID
and won't check me in without it,yet I can board the aircraft without my carry on bag being checked because although ABX now has
a security screening point it is never staffed and Albury is not the only regional airport in that situation.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[dajop]

I believe that no-one should be allowed through security unless they are flying.

If the security screening is adequate then does it really matter? The business models of Australian airports are built around people going through security and spending money at outlets when the picking up and dropping off passengers so it's going to require a big rethink - or someone is going to have pay for the loss in revenue somehow!

I can board the aircraft without my carry on bag being checked because although ABX now has
a security screening point it is never staffed and Albury is not the only regional airport in that situation.

A little SAAB is hardly going to cause a repeat of WTC though, not carrying a lot of fuel especially by the time it reaches MEL? At MQL they have a security screening point and it is used for DJ flights on the Embraer jets, but as per requirement it is not used for propeller aircraft flights (unless they are leaving at the same time). So travelling on QF and ZL you don't get screened. Sort of understandable for the 36 seat SAABs. More difficult to comprehend for the similar pax capacity ERJ & Q400. Wonder if it will go away when DJ start flying the AT props around instead of E70's?

 

[harvyk]

I believe that no-one should be allowed through security unless they are flying. We are one of the few places in the world where this is the case. I don't believe it would be a significant cost to implement either. With less people going through security, you would need less staff to process people through security and they could redistribute those extra staff to check IDs at the start of security. Works fine in the US - only takes 10 seconds to check ID and most of the time it takes you longer than that to queue up anyway so wouldn't increase the length of time overall at security.

What would banning people from entering the airport when not flying actually achieve in terms of airline safety and security? I would expect most people at airports (and who go through security) actually intend on flying...

For those who don't intend on flying (but want to get into the secure part of the terminal for what ever reason), how easy would it be to buy a $9 TT throwaway fare?

IMO the best thing which could be done is instigate a "trusted traveller" program... The same as with any other clearence, a trusted traveller has proper background checks done (the same sort of background checks that would be done for a gov't security clearence), and is then given minimal screening from then on... Random checks can be done on trusted travellers from time to time (like how explosive tests are done at random) to make sure that they are not abusing that trust.

This would free up time to do more intensive checking on pax who are unknowns.

 

[dfcatch]

Sure it can be done easily. There is a cost though, you have to pay someone to do that checking. At what cost? Is the benefit worth the cost? To do it properly you need some protection against fraudulent ID as well (which they do have in the US). Frankly if it's targetted at the criminal element in society, I am sure convincing fake photo ID's are not that difficult to produce for that part of society.

Where do we draw the line? Have border ID & vehicle checks when crossing state boundaries in car to prevent interstate smuggling? Require ID checks for people boarding suburban trains in case they are terrorists?

There is no additional cost. The gate agent is already checking boarding passes. You would simply present your photo id when presenting your boarding pass.

Now if you required id to access the secure area, then yes, someone has to do that, but then less people in the secure area.

The security delays in the USA are not from the id checks, but from the security screening itself.

I don't see the problem at all. Why shouldn't you have to show id to show that it is your boarding pass..??

Now, personally I find that SIN's "secure gate lounge" concept is a little over the top.