Cancellation of booking online

[Mal]

Cancelled a booking today and now have the shell credit. Not happy with the increased Change/cancel fees - and really not happy with the T&Cs around the re-booking. But it's the price you pay.

You end up with an email that is the exact same as a normal booking.

Your Virgin Australia Itinerary for xx_xx_X

Thank you for choosing to travel with Virgin Australia.

Your reservation number is xx_xx_.

Virgin Australia is a ticketless airline, therefore you don't need a ticket to travel with us. All you need to do is present photo ID and the attached itinerary. It's that easy!

Important Flight Information


You must be checked in for your flight at least 30 minutes prior to your scheduled departure time. When planning your arrival at the airport, please ensure you allow enough time to check in. Checking in after this time may cause you to miss your flight and forfeit the fare paid.
Checked Baggage

When travelling on a saver Fare you can choose to travel with carry-on baggage only, or take checked baggage for just a little more. If you are booked on a saver fare and haven't already purchased your checked baggage allowance, pre-pay online at manage bookings as baggage allowance purchased at the airport incurs a higher fee. Please visit baggage information for more information.


Itinerary Viewing

Your itinerary is in PDF format and is attached to this email. You will need Adobe Acrobat to view this itinerary - download a copy free from the Adobe website. You can also request a plain text version of the itinerary.



Web Check-in - Jump the Queue
With Web Check-in you can check in online, choose your seat, and print your own boarding pass from your home or office.
Web Check-in opens 24 hours before you travel and closes 60 minutes before your flight's scheduled departure.
Unable to Web Check because you don't have a printer? Check-in can still be quick and easy using our Kiosk Check-in option available at the airport.
If you have bags to check in, please take them to our check-in or bag drop counters along with your boarding pass.
No bags? If you have your boarding pass, you can jump the queue and head straight to the boarding gate.
If you have purchased a Blue Zone exit row seat, have a Special Service Request (SSR) or are travelling on a V Australia or Skywest codeshare flight, unfortunately you are unable to use Web or Kiosk Check-in and will need to check-in at a check-in counter at the airport.

Thanks for the information Virgin Australia. Pity I'm not flying with you this week...

 

[JohnK]

Sneaky. I did not realise the change fees increased. Last time I needed to change flights back in September 2010 it was $45 to change a Blue Saver and $50 to change a Go-Fare.

Is there a cancellation charge as well? I have not had a need to cancel flights although when I was sick last year we decided to throw away a ~$65 BNE-SYD flight for my father as it was not worth paying the $50 change fee as we were unsure when to book the next flight.

Is a change fee really necessary with e-tickets replacing paper tickets? I don't think so but it is another way for airlines to gouge....

 

[Saab34]

Looks like the cancellation fee is the same at $60 which puts them in front of all other carriers.

Change fees in comparison:
Jetstar $40
Tiger $50
QF-$55

Very surprised Jetstar has yet to push it up.

 

[odysseus]

Very surprised Jetstar has yet to push it up.

They're also behind on the fuel surcharges so are being more customer friendly at the moment.

I'm pretty disappointed with all the surcharging VBA are doing - when they even gouged on currency conversion fees for their own refunded fares, and charged credit card fees per passenger even when no credit card charge occurred, it all got a bit much.

 

[crazydave98]

Is a change fee really necessary with e-tickets replacing paper tickets? I don't think so but it is another way for airlines to gouge....

The cost to the airline in changing bookings is not handling paper stock and that was relatively minor even then. The main effect is "opportunity cost" - that is the risk of not being able to re-sell the seat at the same price. If there were no change fee the airline would simply wear the entire cost of the empty seat (which would contribute to raising the cost of all tickets).

The change fee is both a disincentive to change (what economists call a price signal) and "insurance" if the person does change. In an ideal world either the customer could resell the ticket and wear the loss (or profit) or the airline would re-imburse the person holding the changed ticket for the difference between the fee charged and the revenue from re-selling the ticket. In our far from ideal world a fixed price is the most efficient mechanism.

 

[leemin]

While we're on fees (yell at me if this is too far off-topic), crazydave can you explain the rationale behind the $4.50 per sector per person CC fee? I'm not adverse to paying a fee, but I would have thought the normal %-based model would have been fairer and and also be guaranteed to cover the associated costs Virgin incurs.

 

[crazydave98]

While we're on fees (yell at me if this is too far off-topic), crazydave can you explain the rationale behind the $4.50 per sector per person CC fee? I'm not adverse to paying a fee, but I would have thought the normal %-based model would have been fairer and and also be guaranteed to cover the associated costs Virgin incurs.

There are two issues here - the quantum of the fee and the charging mechanism on which it is based. The flat fee mechanism rather than percentage based is primarily for simplicity - you would be surprised at how many people have trouble doing the mental arithmetic to convert % into $ when it is the latter which is their primary concern. A cynic could argue that percentage based would make for easier comparison with what is charged by the banks and what merchants in other industries surcharge.

 

[leemin]

A cynic could argue that percentage based would make for easier comparison with what is charged by the banks and what merchants in other industries surcharge.

I'll take the cynics position then and say that those of us who fly the shorter, cheaper, presumably more profitable and popular routes (e.g. MEL-SYD) are subsidizing at a ~6% CC fee, those that fly longer, more expensive flights - who might pay the equivalent if a 2% fee - and bolstering Virgin's profits as well

 

[crazydave98]

I don't get those people who cry "gouging!" on credit card fees but are quite happy to buy a seat at less than what it costs the airline to produce it. At the end of the day, airlines (like any business) have to make a profit to stay in business which means they need more money coming in than going out. The revenue comes from a wide variey of sources (tickets, baggage fees, change/cancel fees, fuel surcharges, credit card fees, catering sales, lounge memberships, sale of frequent flyer points, freight, magazine advertising....etc.). It's swings and roundabouts - some fees will bring in more revenue than associated costs and some will bring in less. Some people are more sensitive to certain fees than others. Sure any airline can abolish credit card fees entirely and try to recover the revenue through increased fares - but I suggest that would be a very short-lived airline unless competitors followed suite. The joys of competition.

 

[leemin]

I don't get those people who cry "gouging!" on credit card fees but are quite happy to buy a seat at less than what it costs the airline to produce it. At the end of the day, airlines (like any business) have to make a profit to stay in business which means they need more money coming in than going out. The revenue comes from a wide variey of sources (tickets, baggage fees, change/cancel fees, fuel surcharges, credit card fees, catering sales, lounge memberships, sale of frequent flyer points, freight, magazine advertising....etc.). It's swings and roundabouts - some fees will bring in more revenue than associated costs and some will bring in less. Some people are more sensitive to certain fees than others. Sure any airline can abolish credit card fees entirely and try to recover the revenue through increased fares - but I suggest that would be a very short-lived airline unless competitors followed suite. The joys of competition..

True. I wasn't implying the 'gouging' argument so much as that I'd rather the price of the product be directly reflected in the price rather than made up through other "swings and roundabouts" fees. In some way, that would just feel more honest. Could just be me though - it is a marketing decision as much as it is an economic one!

Rest assured, as a shareholder, I want Virgin to be profitable as much as you do

 

[crazydave98]

True. I wasn't implying the 'gouging' argument so much as that I'd rather the price of the product be directly reflected in the price rather than made up through other "swings and roundabouts" fees. In some way, that would just feel more honest. Could just be me though - it is a marketing decision as much as it is an economic one!

Rest assured, as a shareholder, I want Virgin to be profitable as much as you do

Sorry - my gouging comment wasn't directed at you. I think we would all rather have a closer relationship between cost and price for all components but the competitive interaction (aka "the market") just doesn't let it work out that way.

 

[leemin]

Sorry - my gouging comment wasn't directed at you

I wasn't sure, so thought I'd explain anyway.

Fwiw, I feel your frustration. In another context, I experience it all the time: people want the ends but don't like and in the extreme, hate, the means..

 

[serfty]

Of course, one can employ POLi for those fares under, say, $300 and pay by 1½ point per $ Amex for those over.

 

[dfcatch]

Dave,

How the airline decides to price its seats is the airline's business. They need to factor in costs/competition/market demand etc.

But the CC fee is a penalty to CC users to reimburse the merchant for the costs of processing that form of payment.

When the rules were relaxed to allow merchants to on-charge processing fees, I don't believe the intent was to allow airlines (or other merchants) to charge significantly over and above a reasonable amount relative to the cost of processing such payments.

Ultimately - if it keeps going the way it is - political pressure will result in regulation change.

Then the airlines will have to balance the books in a more transparent way. (probably higher fares).

 

[Mal]

Ultimately - if it keeps going the way it is - political pressure will result in regulation change.

It is very possible. Plenty of media about the issue, and it's media that puts the pressure on pollies.

The interesting thing about DJ cancel fees is that it isn't just the $80 (Intl) or $60 (Domestic) you lose. You also have to factor in the call centre charge ($20 Int), ($15 dom) for the rebooking.

Yep, you get punished for their dodgy IT systems and inability to handle this online.

Thanks DJ. More reasons for me to love you.

 

[serfty]

...
Then the airlines will have to balance the books in a more transparent way. (probably higher fares).

It's quite possible, but while most carriers are doing it, that's the way it is.

It's bit like Fuel Fines - ticket on LA and they don't happen.

 

[dfcatch]

Crazydave,

Let me give DJ some gratuitous advice from a QF WP who would LOVE to move over to DJ if they just did the right things.

One of the things that I honestly can't get my head around is why on earth DJ is trying SO SO hard to beat QF in a race to the bottom??

The golden opportunity is there - but instead of rebranding the image to compete with QF at their own game and move DJ from a LCC to a Premium Airline, all we see is QF light (with all the negatives and none of the positives)

QF has operational advantages over DJ:
1/Routes
2/ Aircraft
3/ OneWorld alliance

All we have seen from DJ (IMHO) is:
1/ Increasing fares to match QF. I don't even bother to look at DJ anymore as they aren't competitive/
2/ Increasing fees (just like QF)
3/ Baggage fees
etc etc

So my suggestion is quite simple:
1/ Lose the LCC items such as charged baggage. QF is trying to be a LCC whilst not admitting it. DJ should aim to be the Premium offering that QF once was (Pre-AJ).
(you can't be a Premium Airline if you charge like a LCC)

2/ Drop all the excess fees - go back to how it was - DJ as a LCC was competitive. Up the service offering, then balance the fares. Not the other way around.

Anyway - my mind is now blank, it's late.... But you get the picture. Don't adopt the worst of the new QF offering. Reject it - give customers what they want in a Premium Airline, and you may just gain a bigger slice quicker than you thought.....

 

[odysseus]

Sorry - my gouging comment wasn't directed at you.

Does that mean it was at me? I used that word sometime earlier, not directly about credit card fees but in the large margin VBA took in converting its own credit from USD to AUD. Given the credit is held by yourselves so conversion doesn't involve a middleman, I'd expect as close to a mid-rate as possible, not yet another opportunity to make some money, hoping it wouldn't be noticed.

Of course, combine this with:
- enforced booking to use the credit through the service centre, with a compulsory service centre fee added on because the customer is forced to do that
- the lack of alternatives offered for paying the difference with the enforced approach, meaning that a credit card fee then has to be paid
- a booking for three where there was a difference of about $8 in the total cost for all three people (far less than the cost of a single ticket), yet I was then requested to pay 3 extra credit card surcharges because there were three people on the booking - and the credit card surcharges then came to more than 100% of the actual fare amount difference being charged to the credit card!

When the customer is hit up for 4 separate/extra fees, none of which they had a choice for and which were out of line with the costs associated, then I think the gouge statement is justified.

 

[crazydave98]

One of the things that I honestly can't get my head around is why on earth DJ is trying SO SO hard to beat QF in a race to the bottom??
All we have seen from DJ (IMHO) is:
1/ Increasing fares to match QF. I don't even bother to look at DJ anymore as they aren't competitive/
2/ Increasing fees (just like QF)
3/ Baggage fees
etc etc

Race to the bottom - I don't get why you would make such a statement. Firstly you as a Gold Velocity member do not pay checked baggage fees on any fare type when travelling with us unless it is more than 32kg (i.e. excess). Second we have a whole class of economy fare (Flexi) which includes checked baggage, food, beverage and IFE no matter what status. The F&B and IFE are in my opinion better than you get on Qantas (bar some trans-con flights) and we don't restrict the number of pieces you can check in.

So my suggestion is quite simple:
1/ Lose the LCC items such as charged baggage. QF is trying to be a LCC whilst not admitting it. DJ should aim to be the Premium offering that QF once was (Pre-AJ).
(you can't be a Premium Airline if you charge like a LCC)

see previous comment.

2/ Drop all the excess fees - go back to how it was - DJ as a LCC was competitive. Up the service offering, then balance the fares. Not the other way around.

Sorry you can't have both. Either we drop fees OR we go back to how it was. The complaint by premium travellers against VB was primarily having to reach into their pocket to pay for Blue Room access, Live2ai, food & beverage. I believe, and I think the comments on this forum also generally support the contention, that Virgin Australia has significantly upped the service offering.

 

[crazydave98]

Ultimately - if it keeps going the way it is - political pressure will result in regulation change.

Then the airlines will have to balance the books in a more transparent way. (probably higher fares).

dfcatch you may very well be right. But until that happens we are in a competitive market where if we elected to lower our CC fees and increase our base fares we would lose sales to airlines with a lower headline price (and maintaining fees) because headline fares is what drives the market. There already is a form of regulation by which, in order to be able to charge CC fees, the airline has to offer a no-cost alternative (such as Poli, direct transfer or Bpay).