How safe are Johannesburg and Durban

[casanovawa]

Thinking of flying to South Africa middle of the year and in most cities i fly to i like to look around, photograph some of the sites, explore the city etc...

Would it be safe to do this in Joburg and Durban, or would Durban be safer than Joburg, or would I be asking for trouble walking around witha camera etc unless on some tour group with security?

 

[thewinchester]

I have no first-hand experience with these locales, so my first stop is the DFAT advice for South Africa (current as of today):

Crime is significantly higher after dark in the centres of major cities and in township areas. The inner suburbs of Johannesburg (Berea and Hillbrow) and the beachfront in Durban are particularly prone to crime and you should avoid travelling to these areas. As crime rates are generally high in the townships, you should only visit township areas with an organised tour run by a reputable company. You should also avoid isolated beaches, lookouts and picnic areas.

When travelling by car, you should keep the doors locked, the windows up and valuables out of sight. Thieves posing as vendors or beggars target cars on highway off ramps, stopped at intersections and at traffic lights. Criminals have also placed debris on roads to stop vehicles. You should not stop to clear debris off the road

Valuables such as cameras, mobile phones and jewellery should be kept out of sight, and you should exercise vigilance in public places. Bags and backpacks have been stolen in public places including restaurants and bars

There is a luggage theft and pilferage problem at Johannesburg and Cape Town airports. Use an airport plastic wrapping service when available and avoid placing electronics, jewellery, cameras and other valuables into checked luggage. Criminals operate out of the airport in Johannesburg, following some overseas visitors to their homes or hotels and robbing them. We advise against accepting unsolicited assistance with transport when arriving at the airport in Johannesburg. Assaults and robberies have also taken place on local commuter and metro trains between Johannesburg and Pretoria, as well as on commuter trains in Cape Town.

Based on the DFAT advice, the advice suggests that your activities are best conducted as part of a reputable tour group.

 

[UP4014]

J'burg - 46 murders and 300 rapes.....PER DAY. Other places in SA not nearly as bad however.

Murder rates per capita...
# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 peopl
Aust is no. 43

 

[james4321]

There is a luggage theft and pilferage problem at Johannesburg and Cape Town airports. Use an airport plastic wrapping service when available ....

Very good advice. I would suggest that it is very important from a security point of view that you wrap your luggage going to South Africa as well as returning.

 

[casanovawa]

hmmm, doesn't sound like the most inviting place does it...

i mean DFATs warning always tend a little more towards the hysterical, better to list all the potential bad things and them not happen than to under report the danger and something does, but still...

right up there with PNG and Port Moresby...

hmmm... have to think it through... might be safer to go down to Cape Town and dive with the Great Whites...

 

[Fantic125]

The company I work for has a site next door to Ellis Park Stadium in Jo'burg.

Usually OK during the day (with normal precautions - no bling, expensive camera's, etc) but not recommended at night.

YMMV.

 

[casanovawa]

and don't look like a dopey tourist asking to be rolled...

 

[Fantic125]

Exactly.
Rule no 1 when you arrive in a foreign city, never say to a cab driver that it's your first time there.
Rule no 2 is entirely up to you....

 

[Flying Fox]

Got back from JNB in Aug.

I can say that I was very wary of my surroundings as I was carrying my DSLR and taking pics. I always scoped out the locations and watched who was around before taking out my camera to shoot. Always repacked it before moving off.

Only went out at night when escorted by hotel staff who dropped us off at specific locations and then picked us up afterwards.

Also watch out for the porters at JNB airport. They seem to grab your trolley and run off with it telling you to follow. I told the Mrs to watch the bags and I watched where he was taking us. Then they ask you for a tip which I refused since I didn’t ask for his service.

In short, I felt quite intimidated in Sth Africa. I spoke to a local and he said that other cities had similar crime rates as JNB but the actual numbers represent the smaller populations.

Unfortunately Sth Africa is beautiful and there are some really nice & friendly people there but there are other elements that really spoil it.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Thinking of flying to South Africa middle of the year and in most cities i fly to i like to look around, photograph some of the sites, explore the city etc...

Would it be safe to do this in Joburg and Durban, or would Durban be safer than Joburg, or would I be asking for trouble walking around witha camera etc unless on some tour group with security?

Nowhere is safe. Assume nothing, read up and make contact with 'safe locals'

I find the SAS handbook very good advice.

 

[haydensydney]

Gee - SA sounds just gorgeous

 

[casanovawa]

yeah, when going anywhere potentially dodgy i usually like to stay with a couchsurfer, or at least scour the couchsurfing groups for that country/city, nothing like local knowledge...

i do know a friend on facebook that i have talked to for a couple of years in Joburg, might be able to stay with her etc, but not sure if she will have the time to go out with me, or whether she has the inclination to go into the centre of the city, sounds like some of the whites stay in their own communities probably with hired security and all...

just a little hard to get a handle on the place.... saw a program on tv the other night about crime and security in Joburg by Louis Theroux... seems like a rough place...

anyway, apart from looking at maybe Joburg and Durban or Cape Town I'm also planning to go up to Victoria Falls then do a 7 day tour down to Joburg, maybe i will limit some of my other touring around SA once i get down there... seems a pity though...

 

[docjames]

Vic Falls is also problematic security-wise. Same precautions (if not more so) apply as in JNB.

 

[malmacdowall]

I was in Port Elizabeth recently and it was a real eye opener... ausiies are just not used to living behind barbed fences and barred windows... A friend who lives there gave me this advice... don't go anywhere with anyone you don't know, Don't talk to anyone you don't know (their not being friendly), stick to the main areas, don't do exploring or wandering back streets and don't get it any one elses car... Keep your valuables out of sight and know where your wallet is at all times... Apart from that, have fun... These are really just precautions that the locals take every day... Chances are nothing will happen, but best not to advertise the valuables or go wandering. Otherwise it was a very buetiful country and I had no problems whilst there.. Good food and wine is really cheap (Compared to Aus) and the souveniers are really really cheap... it was like someone forgot to tell the restaurants and souvenir people to rip off the tourists.. Can highly recommend Shamwari game park in Cape Town or Ado Elephant park outside Port Elizabeth... I hope to take the family back there some time soon...

 

[drmikki]

I got mugged at knifepoint in Cape Town - the 'safer' alternative to Joburg. I think if you go to South Africa you have to accept that the there is a massive crime problem and alter your mentality from the (thankfully) laid-back Australian way of living.

As described by others:
1. Airports can be pretty dodgy. Arrange a transfer to meet you if possible, either from the hotel or they should be able to arrange a reputable person who they use for transfers. I stayed in a hostel (was a student when there) and they had this option in place, so nicer places should definitely have this. The taxi drivers/porters/touts can be a problem, and in some cases dangerous.
2. Whilst Cape Town is 'safer' than JoBurg, it is by no means safe by Australian standards. In middle class neighbourhoods, it is not uncommon to see houses with fences, gates, security systems and sometimes a guard. In our dubious student share house we had a massive fence topped with barbed wire, and two deadlocks on the front door.
3. Take reasonable precautions (don't look like a tourist, hide the valuables etc)
Then take unreasonable precautions.
As an example, using an ATM:
Don't carry your wallet on you unless absolutely necessary. Carry cash for the day, and one or two cards if you expect to need them. Find ATM with decent lighting in a public location (shopping centres/supermarkets were quite good). Examine surroundings carefully. If someone loitering, standing too close, otherwise worrying you, walk away. Approach ATM, look for signs of tampering. If so, walk away. If not, put your card in. Immedicately cancel the transaction to ensure your card is not going to be retained - there had been a lot of ATM tampering where your card got retained by the machine and either someone watched you or a video taped you entering your PIN so money could be stolen, so always make sure your card is returning to you BEFORE inputting PIN. Before reinserting card, paranoid look at surroundings again. Ensure noone can see PIN, including no mirrors atop the machine. If all happy, get dosh, stash somewhere safe, look around you, walk away...

If planning on driving, there are certain areas that are no-go zones - the townships in CapeTown, especially Khayelitsha. There are also areas where you don't stop for red lights after dark due to carjackings and thefts. Your hotel can help with this. Also, when parking the car there are young men who make a living "guarding" cars - you park and find a young black man who will guard your car in return for a few rand. Frequently this is not an optional extra.... if the money isn't paid your car or pieces of it may not be there when you come back! I'm not sure if this is still occurring, but was common at the beaches and other tourist areas at the time (2006).

All that said, South Africa is a beautiful country and I enjoyed my time there. The Cape of Good Hope, Simon's Town, Table Mountain and Stellenbosch winery region were all well work visiting. I would suggest the more local knowledge the better - if you have friends, colleagues, couchsurfers who live there or used to live there, then tap their knowledge.

 

[Flying Fox]

... anyway, apart from looking at maybe Joburg and Durban or Cape Town I'm also planning to go up to Victoria Falls then do a 7 day tour down to Joburg, maybe i will limit some of my other touring around SA once i get down there... seems a pity though...

I have done Vic Falls from Livingstone and it was impressive.

Can I also recommend the Walk with the Lions -

Walk with lions in Livingstone

Totally amazing experience and your money partly goes to a good cause.

JNB - Stayed at the Southern Sun Hotel close to the airport and they have a free shuttle bus. I would recommend this hotel & service. Garden Court hotel was also similar in terms of service etc.

PM me if you like and we can chat further.

 

[Jobu]

Unfortunately when it comes to South Africa, DFAT's advice is not overstated.

It is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, and has some amazing sights.

It's really best if you have friends or relatives living there who can show you around. The level of precautions is on another level that you will not even realise the things they do that come second nature to them. You just can't go for a walk in down town Johannesburg taking happy snaps. You shouldn't use public transport, and it's best to do your research in advance.

There are some amazing places outside of the cities, some of the game reserves, hiking on the Drakensburg Ranges, wineries of the Cape (e.g. Stellenbosch), beautiful coastal areas (outside of Durban).

Cape Town is one of the 'safer' cities, but don't let your guard down there either.

Cheers

J

 

[Justinf]

Take enough cash with you so that if you are mugged, you can at least give something to the mugger, not a fortune but enough to appease the mugger. You don't want to be mugged with no cash on you or you are going to have a very, very angry mugger and there's no telling how he will take his anger out on you.

 

[drmikki]

Muggings are a fact of life - less common if you don't look too much like a tourist, but in some area anyone non-black/non-coloured (different groups in the SA venacular) is a likely target.
As Justin said, make sure you have something to give the mugger so they don't get angry. Additionally, don't fight or struggle in any way, for the same reason. Stay calm, do what they say and don't give them any reason to harm you. Unless you are expecting a phone call, or likely to need to call someone, avoid taking a phone with you. If you feel you need a phone for safety reasons, consider a prepaid cheap phone. Phones, cash and credit cards are the 3 main targets of theft, so if you have your regular phone with you make sure that any vital information (including all the numbers on your sim) and any other documents, especially on smartphones, are backed up elsewhere.

Also, hotel rooms are not necessarily safe - a colleague found she was missing cash from her wallet and it turned out to go missing every morning when they went down to breakfast. She and her fiancee found out when they came back early one day and were getting ready to check out and found a man, probably a hotel employee, hiding under the bed! Use the safe in the room, or if thats not possible hide within big bags or suitcases that you can lock with your own lock.

SA also presents safety issues for females that aren't present most other places - the rape figure is absurdly high (I believe the current data is that 1 in 2 females in SA will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime) and HIV is a massive problem. We're talking between 25-40% of young men in some communities (in our trauma patients in Cape Town it was in the order of 50%). Be sensible, if you go out to a nightspot go with someone you trust (not some bloke you just met in the hotel bar) and stick together. There are numerous clinics around for help should the worst happen, and HIV preventatives in case of rape or unsafe sex, but MUCH better to avoid getting into that scenario. The same is also true for men, although the risk is lower.

 

[oobi doobi]

I had my camera with all photos of Kruger park and cricket trip stolen from suitcase at Jo burg airport after checkin. Wife also had her fancy shoes stolen from same suitcase which upset her more. If only they had left the memory stick.

such is life!