Overshooting the airbridge

[hopes]

Sometimes we see where a proportion of people believe they know more than the pilot, cabbie, bus driver, ferry captain etc that has been entrusted to get them to their destination. Those same people don't always have an awareness of all the circumstances

The key here is "get them to their destination" If you miss by an inch or a hundred miles you have failed in my book. I heard of a plane arriving at Brussells when it was supposed to land at Luxembourg. Yes the passengers got there in the end - by bus. Circumstances was - pilot error. Its not like driving a car where most don't do it for a living and long haul pilots, as part of their job description, generally only have to land once in a day so I'd expect them to get all aspects of it right. Its what we pay for after all. Or is it?

 

[RB]

The key here is "get them to their destination" If you miss by an inch or a hundred miles you have failed in my book. I heard of a plane arriving at Brussells when it was supposed to land at Luxembourg. Yes the passengers got there in the end - by bus. Circumstances was - pilot error. Its not like driving a car where most don't do it for a living and long haul pilots, as part of their job description, generally only have to land once in a day so I'd expect them to get all aspects of it right. Its what we pay for after all. Or is it?

I think you may have picked an exceptional example to highlight your case . I am not afraid to put my hand up to admit mistakes in my life. I guess it reflects the need to have the term "human error" in all our vocabs. Haven't seen the perfect golfer, tennis player, F1 driver etc & doubt I will.
I think you will find jb747 might know a bit more about the subject that all of us!

 

[oz_mark]

The key here is "get them to their destination" If you miss by an inch or a hundred miles you have failed in my book. I heard of a plane arriving at Brussells when it was supposed to land at Luxembourg. Yes the passengers got there in the end - by bus. Circumstances was - pilot error. Its not like driving a car where most don't do it for a living and long haul pilots, as part of their job description, generally only have to land once in a day so I'd expect them to get all aspects of it right. Its what we pay for after all. Or is it?

I'd expect you will be disappointed them - while it is a fine thing to aim for, we need to recognise that people make mistakes. In the case of pilots, I am sure plenty of errors get made, noticed and corrected - it's just being human. Just sometimes, passengers get to notice.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I've experienced an "undershoot" at the airbridge after arriving at BNE during a storm. Our aircraft was held on the taxiway for about 20 min during the storm then taxied up to the airbridge and held about 20m away for about 30 mins. Appears ground staff sheltered from lightning (OK) but no one would operate the airbridge due similar risk!! :?:

Seems to me that the operator is inside the shell and seemingly well protected from the elements, so a fairly grumpy planeload of disgruntled pax finally were able to disembark well after the storm had passed.

What about the poor ginger beer who has to chock the plane? These guys n girls are often treated like the poor relation particularly WRT no flight & duty limitations etc. Even if they could chock it, the baggage handlers still can't go out on the tarmac to unload bags until the 5NM warning has lifted so you're either going to be waiting onboard the aircraft or at the baggage carousel.

I think it's easier for the punters if the Skipper holds short somewhere (eg in DRW RAAF Base side of airport) other than just shy of the aerobridge otherwise the punters can't understand why they can't disembark & you'll hear the enevitable comment this is cough***g b******t when the natives get restless.

Funny thing is sometimes you can predict who's behind the wheel just by the speed and manner they use turning on to the bay, more noticeable when it's on a stand off bay though.

I've seen some 717's set a cracking pace (hoon in) then thought "gee that looks like so and so from CNS or DRW" & been scarily accurate sometimes. The 'enthusiastic' pilots often follow other pursuits in their spare time such as mud racing & speedway car racing, maybe just a happy coincidence.

 

[Groundfeeder]

What about the poor ginger beer who has to chock the plane? These guys n girls are often treated like the poor relation particularly WRT no flight & duty limitations etc. Even if they could chock it, the baggage handlers still can't go out on the tarmac to unload bags until the 5NM warning has lifted so you're either going to be waiting onboard the aircraft or at the baggage carousel.

Thanks Oz, as I said I'm OK with the safety aspect.
Me - I'll take the wait at the carousel rather than the Y seat.

 

[BVT]

Many, many years ago, I was on the first 737 to land at the (then) brand new BNE International terminal. Most amusing watching the ground staff trying to attach the airbridge to a 737. Obviously used to much bigger birds!

 

[jb747]

The key here is "get them to their destination" If you miss by an inch or a hundred miles you have failed in my book. I heard of a plane arriving at Brussells when it was supposed to land at Luxembourg. Yes the passengers got there in the end - by bus. Circumstances was - pilot error. Its not like driving a car where most don't do it for a living and long haul pilots, as part of their job description, generally only have to land once in a day so I'd expect them to get all aspects of it right. Its what we pay for after all. Or is it?

I heard .....

Yes but did you 'hear' any details?

Brussels and Luxembourg? One would perhaps suggest that you can't just fly to the wrong airport without a bit of help from outside agencies. The pilots generally know the registration of the aircraft, if it is FMC based the route will come straight off the flightplan. ATC known the rego and callsign, and where its supposed to go, and how it's supposed to get there. As a general rule ATC and the pilots have to agree on where is is going, for it to go anywhere.

In any event though, the thread was about parking.

 

[hopes]

Yes but did you 'hear' any details?

Brussels and Luxembourg? One would perhaps suggest that you can't just fly to the wrong airport without a bit of help from outside agencies. The pilots generally know the registration of the aircraft, if it is FMC based the route will come straight off the flightplan. ATC known the rego and callsign, and where its supposed to go, and how it's supposed to get there. As a general rule ATC and the pilots have to agree on where is is going, for it to go anywhere.

In any event though, the thread was about parking.

Your note prompted me to research and I was mistaken - it was Brussels and Frankfurt as follows:

September 5, 1995 - A Northwest Airlines DC-10, bound for Frankfurt,
Germany, mistakenly landed in Brussels, Belgium, approximately 200
miles off course. (In this case, air traffic control has been blamed
for providing incorrect flight plan data to the pilots.) See Don
Phillips, "U.S. Jet Bound for Germany Mistakenly Lands in Belgium,"
Washington Post, October 1, 1995.

What is interesting is that it seems that ATC was not actually at fault, it was actually the pilots.

I agree it is somewhat off thread but amazing that this can happen.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Your note prompted me to research and I was mistaken - it was Brussels and Frankfurt as follows:

September 5, 1995 - A Northwest Airlines DC-10, bound for Frankfurt,
Germany, mistakenly landed in Brussels, Belgium, approximately 200
miles off course. (In this case, air traffic control has been blamed
for providing incorrect flight plan data to the pilots.) See Don
Phillips, "U.S. Jet Bound for Germany Mistakenly Lands in Belgium,"
Washington Post, October 1, 1995.

What is interesting is that it seems that ATC was not actually at fault, it was actually the pilots.

I agree it is somewhat off thread but amazing that this can happen.

I also don't wish to take the thread any further off topic but if anyone is interested there is a whole website devoted to landings at wrong airports.
Wrong Way Landings By Commercial Airliners
Cheers
N'oz

 

[jb747]

WEll, it looks like the thread has changed tack anyway, and I don't think that there is a great deal to be added to the original anyway.

Landing at the wrong airport is a fairly simple thing to do, given a number of circumstances. You need two airports that are relatively close, and which have runways in roughly the same direction. Generally you need the pilot to transition from instruments to visual, and then to stay there without any form of cross check. You need said pilot to be solo ( he may have another pilot present, but he isn't doing anything). The slightest instrument cross check will stop this....

Lots of places come to mind, but I recall being warned about Christchurch, as Wigram was easy to misidentify. On the other hand, it's an airliner, so why are you flying visually?

 

[hopes]

WEll, it looks like the thread has changed tack anyway, and I don't think that there is a great deal to be added to the original anyway.

Landing at the wrong airport is a fairly simple thing to do

I fly a fair bit in a twin enginend Baron throughout Queensland (I am not the pilot BTW) and having picked up the rudiments of navigation and with GPS widely used I would have thought the chances were pretty small to land in the wrong place. If you get of track you are soon contacted to respond.

It may of course have been different in 1995 or even in Europe but I'd like to think not. In fact I am mighty impressed about how tightly controlled our airpace is and it seems (to me at least) to leave little margin for error. Or am I not seeing the full story?

 

[jb747]

I'm typing this on an ipad, so apologies if if comes in sections.

I still don't see the mechanism by which NW ended up in Belgium. From what I can see Brussels is close enough to the great circle route to Frankfurt, but a couple of hundred miles short. I'd have expected most people to notice that the TOD came about 30 minutes earlier than expected. I don't see how cabin crew/px would have been aware of any change either. The entertainment systems do pick up data from FMCs, but the FMC would not have show a change of destination unless it was actually changed from EDDF to EBBR....otherwise they are just going to a waypoint.

But they obviously managed it..perhaps they were just getting us ready for the 320 effort a year or so agp...

 

[jb747]

In fact I am mighty impressed about how tightly controlled our airpace is and it seems (to me at least) to leave little margin for error. Or am I not seeing the full story?

Without wanting to be unkind...not even a tiny bit of it.