Is Frequent Flyer Miles ownership moving from employees, to employers?

[ozbeachbabe]

"Missed" rather than "ignored" is perhaps more accurate! Went back to your original posting ... OK .. good point.

Most companies I've worked for announce new policies ... some are better than what they replace , but many are not . For latter, IMHO, employees are not usually in a position to negotiate. When the car policy was downgraded, I couldn't say "I'll accept it only if you give me free fuel" .. or whatever .. it was the new policy. Next best alternative was a door marked "exit"

Why would you not get free fuel in a company car? So you're saying that a employee should pay for fuel in a company car used for business purposes such as sales calls?

You've got to be kidding right? No company I know would do that and as for the threat "take the new conditions or there's the exit" - I think that decision might be a bit stressful so I might have to see my GP and get a Doctors Certificate for stress leave for a few months - which of course is on full pay as per legislation.

It goes without saying I'd be calling my union also so the HR/Legal department of the company is going to be kept busy for a while.

Two can play this game. :mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

So I fill out the form as explained that I do not want life insurance or whatever it is called.

Fast track 18 months later and I finally look at a super statement and notice that ~$170 a quarter in life insurance charges. What? Yes it has been happening for 18 months, so for 6 quarters.

I have been in touch with superannuation company but they cannot do anythng as the super has changed hands from Legg Mason, to ING and now Onepath.

So what has happened is Human Resources or someone at the previous superannuation company has included the life insurance option on my superannuation when I clearly stated I did not want it.

I am guilty of not checking. They are guilty of making a mistake. It should be their responsibility to fix it.

If you have a copy of the form with this clear instruction then I would definitely take the matter to FIDO or ASIC or whoever is listed in that link. It is their responsibility to follow your instructions, as long as you can prove that you gave the correct instruction then I can't see any problem with getting the government to support you in having the mistake fixed. Even if they can't get it fixed in the long run it is worth a try.

I also had a situation were the super company didn't follow my instructions when I left a company. It really annoyed me and they admitted the mistake. But it didn't end up costing me so I never bothered to pursue it.

It goes without saying I'd be calling my union also so the HR/Legal department of the company is going to be kept busy for a while.

Two can play this game. :mrgreen:

Exactly, I would be making them work hard if they want to get rid of me.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

@lovetravellingoz – … Would it surprise you to know that I write and publish children's books, and usually spend Friday morning's storytelling at kindergardens (and for free!)?

@JOHNK – Can you please help me find a job at the same company as you, because there aren't too many companies or jobs that let you travel when you choose. I've been a road warrior for years, wearing all sorts of different hats, and my job was always to be with the customer .. and sadly, they were usually either a long drive or flight away!

Note now this publisher of children's books is on flyertalk with the same question.
Is Frequent Flyer Miles ownership moving from employees, to employers? - FlyerTalk Forums

Two FF forums...and only one question.

Very one-tracked focus for a such an altruistic soul.

 

[stuartbb]

Why would you not get free fuel in a company car? So you're saying that a employee should pay for fuel in a company car used for business purposes such as sales calls?

Hey, I didn't say an employee should pay for business fuel in a company car! .... An example .. I worked for a large company .. had a company car ... all fuel was paid ... where "all" = business + private. Then one day, the company changed the fuel policy .. they were willing to pay for business related fuel only. All private fuel was to be self funded. Why? Times were tough .. early 2000's .. post dotcom ... companies looking to save from anywhere and everywhere ... so, like all employees, I swallowed the new rules, but still had a job, paid the mortgage, put food on the table .. And yes, you could argue the new rules created a larger management overhead, with some complex system to define what's business and what's private travel ... but it's irrelevant ... as an employee, that was the new policy, implemented immediately. This was when I worked in the UK. No unions involved.

Note now this publisher of children's books is on flyertalk with the same question. Two FF forums...and only one question. Very one-tracked focus for a such an altruistic soul.

I posted the same question, with the same user id "stuartbb" ... I'm not trying to hide anything. This forum has given me an interesting Aurtralian perspective, and I hope this thread has generated some useful thoughts ... (didn't mean "cold dead hands" ... ) ..

So I posted in FlyerTalk to better understand about other countries ... some of the guys there pointed me to some old threads that were on similar topics, and they are fascinating reading .. about the laws in Germany, about how one European guy states his company has a policy to own the miles and use them to reduce future travel spend ... about a large US company that has a policy to own the miles and save on travel ... and what's interesting is if you look at the thread I initiated, most people wrote adamantly "no large companies do this" ... and assumed I didn't know what I was talking about ... but other people wrote "well I work for a company that .. " ... so it seems my posting has already brought new information to the surface of interest to many in the forum.

Thanks also to dictionary.com for explaining to me what "altruistic" means

 

[straitman]

Hey, I didn't say an employee should pay for business fuel in a company car! .... An example .. I worked for a large company .. had a company car ... all fuel was paid ... where "all" = business + private. Then one day, the company changed the fuel policy .. they were willing to pay for business related fuel only. All private fuel was to be self funded. Why? Times were tough .. early 2000's .. post dotcom ... companies looking to save from anywhere and everywhere ... so, like all employees, I swallowed the new rules, but still had a job, paid the mortgage, put food on the table .. And yes, you could argue the new rules created a larger management overhead, with some complex system to define what's business and what's private travel ... but it's irrelevant ... as an employee, that was the new policy, implemented immediately. This was when I worked in the UK. No unions involved.

An interesting analogy.

Having worked for the largest public company in the world I have to say on both counts they they analysed FF points, including the legal implications, and decided that apart from any other consideration it was not worth the extra man power to try and chase peoples FF points.

The same applied to private use of company vehicles. We were allowed 20,000km (I think) private use pa and had to pay the FBT for the excess. After a while it was deemed as not worth the effort and this was dropped also.

 

[JohnK]

It is extremely difficult to have a logical conversation with a sales person about the things they are trying to promote or sell....

 

[awilcockson]

It is extremely difficult to have a logical conversation with a sales person about the things they are trying to promote or sell....

Good point. I kind of wish the mods had left the first thread in tact (minus the website link) for some perspective. For all the "I'm just interested in hearing peoples opinions" there is no doubt that this is nothing more than a sales information gathering exercise.

 

[gumpy]

my company has a written policy stating that the points are the property of the flyer. Logic being that you generally travel in your own time.

 

[ozmille]

The French employees book their flights o ntheir personal credit cards. The companies reimburse them in about 60 days, but the employees hae to pay off their credit cards in about 30 days. So, firstly, the French companies use their employees a banks, for interest free loans. But there's more. Because the majority of employees have modest limits on their cards, they choose to book the cheapest flights. So, the companies reduce their travel bill. So now, Jean-Pierre gets the minimum points from the cheapest flights, has to check he can but food at the supermarket because his card hasn't hit the limit, whilst the employer gets an interest free loan and reduce travel cost. I'd prefer the employer paid for the tickets, got the FF points, and I could confidently buy food for the kids…. But that's just me.

Regards

Stuart

What a generalization. I know for a fact that our French employees do not pay for their travel on personal cards. Also I have checked with a couple of ex-colleagues that now work for different French companies and no-one has to pay for their business travel on their own cards.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

... but other people wrote "well I work for a company that .. " ... so it seems my posting has already brought new information to the surface of interest to many in the forum.

Yes amazing was it not. A newbie with his first post :shock: backed you up. (Probably another altruistic person who reads to children's at daycare centres in their spare time???)

Most of the experienced Flyertalk Members did not seem so supportive of your views.

 

[Jasecoop]

I'm a lucky one, get to keep the ff points plus I get the credit card points from diners for paying for the flights. This equates to over 20k points per month from the credit card. Rules always change in terms of business class vs economy in companies so had that put in my contract, business class travel only (even short flights)

 

[stuartbb]

An interesting analogy.

Having worked for the largest public company in the world I have to say on both counts they they analysed FF points, including the legal implications, and decided that apart from any other consideration it was not worth the extra man power to try and chase peoples FF points.

The same applied to private use of company vehicles ...

A relief to know the largest public company in the world took it so seriously, invested in analyzing the benefits, and made a clear policy decision based on the information they had available at the time ... It sort of raises an interesting point .. many companies asked themselves the same questions, ie about FF miles and/or car policy, but they don't all come to the same conclusion. Why?

It is extremely difficult to have a logical conversation with a sales person about the things they are trying to promote or sell....

I've not tried to sell you anything in this thread. It's in your imagination.

Good point. I kind of wish the mods had left the first thread in tact (minus the website link) for some perspective. For all the "I'm just interested in hearing peoples opinions" there is no doubt that this is nothing more than a sales information gathering exercise.

Me too, so I can understand what all the fuss is about.

What a generalization. I know for a fact that our French employees do not pay for their travel on personal cards. Also I have checked with a couple of ex-colleagues that now work for different French companies and no-one has to pay for their business travel on their own cards.

Thanks for the correction. Seems my French friends didn't give me a general enough picture. I appreciate it. Now, what other countries do you have friends in? (please, let's allow a little humour!)

Yes amazing was it not. A newbie with his first post :shock: backed you up. (Probably another altruistic person who reads to children's at daycare centres in their spare time???). Most of the experienced Flyertalk Members did not seem so supportive of your views.

I think you need to go back and read the thread again. Sounds like you even have a problem with me entertaining children, and on a voluntary basis? Hmm .... Is the glass always half empty?

Wishing you all a great week!

 

[JohnK]

I've not tried to sell you anything in this thread. It's in your imagination.

Sorry Stuart but the examples you keep using (a company does this with a company car, and this with FF miles etc) are the examples of someone trying to promote a specific agenda or sell something.

These examples are neither logical nor practical in the real world.

I would not want to work for any of the companies in your examples if in fact they are real....

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I think you need to go back and read the thread again. !

Err no. I was accurate.

The Quote below is from Flyertalk.

So far from reading through the thread, it appears that Target is the only company that has found this worth doing. Several posters have mentioned companies that tried it and abandon it for whatever reason. So from looking at the facts presented so far in this thread, the obvious trend is that companies that try it eventually move away from it. So the trend is the opposite of what the OP claims.

Sounds like you even have a problem with me entertaining children, and on a voluntary basis? Hmm .... Is the glass always half empty?

No. True altruism is a worthy goal.

However I am most wary of those with clear commercial interests trying to establish credibility with such claims.

You looked up altruism in dictionary.com. Now perhaps try ethics and honesty.

 

[tipsy.skipsy]

Err no. I was accurate.

The Quote below is from Flyertalk.





No. True altruism is a worthy goal.

However I am most wary of those with clear commercial interests trying to establish credibility with such claims.

You looked up altruism in dictionary.com. Now perhaps try ethics and honesty.

Home Run !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: LOL Keep it up lovetravellingoz

 

[stuartbb]

I would not want to work for any of the companies in your examples if in fact they are real....

Your choice. You have a clear statement from an ex employee of a F500 top 50 company on Flyertalk, who stated it was like that when he worked there, and he just called his friends there and confirmed it's still like that now, and you continue to doubt if it's true. You call them and let us all now what you find. I would like to place a couple of side bets on the result ...

You looked up altruism in dictionary.com. Now perhaps try ethics and honesty.

Thanks. No need. I've been living by them for a few decades.

Guys, even though it states in the forum definition that this is a place to ask hard questions, it seems some of you would rather try to verbally skin me alive than think together about a controversial subject.

 

[JohnK]

Your choice. You have a clear statement from an ex employee of a F500 top 50 company on Flyertalk, who stated it was like that when he worked there, and he just called his friends there and confirmed it's still like that now, and you continue to doubt if it's true. You call them and let us all now what you find. I would like to place a couple of side bets on the result ...

One clear statement from an ex-employee of a F500 company that appears to have now ditched that dumb idea.

Stuart! I know you won't listen to advice but if you want to make money then stick to selling children's books and stop trying to convince companies to take ownership of FF miles. People are way to smart to fall for that sort of deal.

In fact most people I know have clear rules when it comes to company travel.

- Some travel (like leaving on a Sunday) will be in their own time and the rest will be in company time.
- Company should allow employee to earn miles
- Employee has a say in which airline to use (none of this we only use JQ or TT)
- If company wants employee to go down to MEL for a day then fly them the day before and pay for accommodation not expect the employee to get up at 3:00am and get home at 9:00pm at night.
- Employee is to use their car for company then pay a decent car allowance or at a minimum pay the kilometre allowance

 

[stuartbb]

One clear statement from an ex-employee of a F500 company that appears to have now ditched that dumb idea.

... if you want to make money then stick to selling children's books .....

Hey John, the ex-employee confirmed it was like that when he worked there, and still is. Yet you read it as "appears to have now ditch ditched". You are wrong.

If you can tell me how to make a decent living from writing and publishing children's books, and I end up being able to do that, we will be best friends. In the meantime, it's a great way to balance the pressures of life.

 

[medhead]

Guys, even though it states in the forum definition that this is a place to ask hard questions, it seems some of you would rather try to verbally skin me alive than think together about a controversial subject.

The problem seems, to me, to be that you are going to take away the answers to your hard question and use them to try to make money. Perhaps if it was just a question to generate discussion the response might be different.

If you can tell me how to make a decent living from writing and publishing children's books, and I end up being able to do that, we will be best friends. In the meantime, it's a great way to balance the pressures of life.

Plenty of people seem to be able to do it.

 

[awilcockson]

The problem seems, to me, to be that you are going to take away the answers to your hard question and use them to try to make money.

By screwing over the people who took the time to answer the question. Ethics indeed.

No matter how he tries to spin it, there is no doubt that the only reason that he is asking these questions is an attempt to locate targets to sell his business into.

And for all the talk of positive benefits for employees, there was no such talk in the original post aimed at employers.