NTL Runway Incursion with Brindabella and two F18s - Aug 2010

[markis10]

Surprised we have not heard more, very unusual for a professional operation for this to occur:

AO-2010-058


The aircraft entered the runway without a clearance resulting in a breakdown of runway separation standards with two FA-18's departing in formation. The investigation is continuing.
A report has not yet been released for this investigation.

 

[samh004]

It doesn’t say how close to a near miss or whatever it was though… so is it really serious, or just a little error. I can’t imagine a pilot would miss two FA-18’s taking off in formation.

 

[medhead]

If the departure point of the aircraft was Canberra and Destination Williamtown and the F-18s were taking off from Williamtown. Does that mean the aircraft was landing, when it entered the runway? Or would it be that it had landed, left the runway and then ahd to cross the runway during taxi?

 

[markis10]

It doesn’t say how close to a near miss or whatever it was though… so is it really serious, or just a little error. I can’t imagine a pilot would miss two FA-18’s taking off in formation.

You would be surprised what people do miss, pilots and tug drivers especially. I once had an aircraft land wheels up at night disabling one of two parallel runways, the company van decided to assist by attending the scene which I only found out about later, to get there they had crossed a very busy active runway without my knowledge. I have also had a tug driver cross the end of a runway with a 747 in tow without permission with another 747 on takeoff roll at the other end, there are a lot of runways where pilots and others cannot see the whole length of the runway.

If the departure point of the aircraft was Canberra and Destination Williamtown and the F-18s were taking off from Williamtown. Does that mean the aircraft was landing, when it entered the runway? Or would it be that it had landed, left the runway and then ahd to cross the runway during taxi?

It could have been after landing or prior to takeoff, its not clear.

 

[samh004]

You would be surprised what people do miss, pilots and tug drivers especially. I once had an aircraft land wheels up at night disabling one of two parallel runways, the company van decided to assist by attending the scene which I only found out about later, to get there they had crossed a very busy active runway without my knowledge. I have also had a tug driver cross the end of a runway with a 747 in tow without permission with another 747 on takeoff roll at the other end, there are a lot of runways where pilots and others cannot see the whole length of the runway.

When you’re controlling aircraft movements on the ground… I’ve seen a map with different dots moving on it online… are all the planes AND smaller vehicles fitted with a beacon so you can see exactly where everything is moving to?

I’d imagine it could get very difficult at night :-|

 

[markis10]

The MK1 eyeball is the only real method to use when controlling aerodrome traffic, surface movement radar helps but there is the problem, it only tracks movement, not aircraft or objects at the wrong spot holding. Some of the worst ever accidents have occurred when things could not be (no never were bothered to be) confirmed by sighting:

Tenerife - Two 747s
Taipei - SQ 747 on wrong runway
LAX - 737 landed on top of a turboprop.

 

[medhead]

It could have been after landing or prior to takeoff, its not clear.

Thanks. another dumb question: If it was taking off from Williamtown, shouldn't the report list the departure as williamtown and the destination as somewhere else?

 

[oz_mark]

Thanks. another dumb question: If it was taking off from Williamtown, shouldn't the report list the departure as williamtown and the destination as somewhere else?

F-18's often take off from one spot and land back there again.

 

[medhead]

F-18's often take off from one spot and land back there again.

I was referring to the other aircraft, the fairchild that did the incurring, not the F-18s*. The report lists it as Canberra to Williamtown. But if the incursion occurred while it was taking off, then should/would departure be listed as Williamtown.


* My question wasn't that stupid, and yes I do realise there are no stupid questions only stupid people.

 

[oz_mark]

I was referring to the other aircraft, the fairchild that did the incurring, not the F-18s*. The report lists it as Canberra to Williamtown. But if the incursion occurred while it was taking off, then should/would departure be listed as Williamtown.

Oh, I see. Based on that information I would think that the other aircraft was arriving. I don't know NTL so not sure if there is a runway crossing involved.

 

[tuppaware]

I'm fresh back from my Road trip to Newcastle .. and I was at both days of the airshow.

No one in the audience was the wiser of this incident...
Although a Jet* did have to do a Missed approach when the Snappy DJ 737 crossed the runway as the JQ was on its landing approach. Much to the delight of the crowd.

 

[FrankC]

I'm fresh back from my Road trip to Newcastle .. and I was at both days of the airshow.

No one in the audience was the wiser of this incident...
Although a Jet* did have to do a Missed approach when the Snappy DJ 737 crossed the runway as the JQ was on its landing approach. Much to the delight of the crowd.

I was there on Sun
Was the missed approach on Sat? I did not remember seeing anything when I was there on Sun

BTW, I like how they allowed people to walk cross the runway to get to/ from their car when there were no flights

 

[tuppaware]

I was there on Sun
Was the missed approach on Sat? I did not remember seeing anything when I was there on Sun

BTW, I like how they allowed people to walk cross the runway to get to/ from their car when there were no flights

I was there on both days. The missed approach was on Sunday .. at least as far as I can remember.

 

[m_ratt]

I was there on both days. The missed approach was on Sunday .. at least as far as I can remember.

Definitely Sunday - I saw it and wondered what the reason was. I was only there on Sunday.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I can’t imagine a pilot would miss two FA-18’s taking off in formation.

They would be harder to miss if 747 size and yellow, but they are small and grey. Could easily miss them if there was glare to contend with. Cheers skip

 

[markis10]

Its irrelevant what was waiting to take off, the aerodrome is fully controlled and the incursion should not have occurred. The F18s are very visable on take off as they are usually fully lit once they have entered the runway, for obvious reasons.

 

[markis10]

The incident report has been finalized, there was some confusion as to which hold was in place!

Investigation: AO-2010-058 - Breakdown of separation - Fairchild Industries, VH-TAG and F/A