platinum - thrown out of galleries first at heathrow, waiting for explanation

[burmans]

Ah, no.

The full brunt of criticism and complaints should be levelled at BA.

QF have done little if not nothing wrong. Their website accurately represents what are the correct guidelines for access to the lounges. The agreements were made some time ago and both airlines, "on paper" and at a high level, are aware of the implications of it. It was the incompetence of a BA lounge staff member (or multiple, as it would seem) that resulted in the incorrect action. The core fault lies with BA, not QF. The only reasonable exceptions would be (a) capacity control, or (b) change in policy which excludes QF WPs from accessing the BA T5 GF. The former may be understandable and QF would have no control over this anyway. The latter is in direct contravention of the rules of the alliance, but again is not QF's fault because they have correctly said their members are entitled (as opposed to incorrectly saying that their members are entitled, in which case QF would have a problem).

Raising the complaint through QF will not work well anyway; it is inefficient because it relies on a secondary process between someone at QF and someone at BA to raise the issue. A more efficient method would be to raise the complaint with BA directly. It is probably worth raising the issue with QF if only for tracking purposes (i.e. if there was a pattern of many QF WPs being rejected from BA F lounges then it may be a serious problem), although BA should have a process / register of complaints that would be able to pick up similar patterns. Of course, if BA truly know what they are doing then complaints of this type (lounge access for oneworld Emeralds) should never be raised in the first place!

Now if in raising the issue with BA they tell the OP where to go (again, incorrect thing to say to a oneworld Emerald), then I might consider getting QF involved but it will still be an inefficient process. At this point I would also start questioning the competence of BA much more seriously more than why QF aren't doing their job throttling BA into honouring their terms of the alliance.

I did say too, not instead of. Am not by any means suggesting that you should not complain to BA but can't agree that Qantas have done nothing wrong. Under Australian law (presuming that where the OP is from) if you say you will do something under a contract there is a funny little idea that you actually have to do it, regardless of whether this is outsourced to a 3rd party. So I object to the we can't/won't do anything attitude.

As for efficiency well would have to seem there is no evidence in this thread to date that complaining to BA has been either efficient or effective. The OP did point out their entitlement and it was apparently rejected out of hand.

 

[JohnK]

Not very good knowledge of the rules by BA lounge staff or was there a personal vendetta in this story?

That seems pretty poor in my opinion on BA's behalf.. Yeah I would have definately printed out the OW rules and gone back in to show them.

Is it sad that I carry a printout of the Oneworld Lounge Access rules in my travel wallet?

By the way I have never been refused entry to a lounge I wanted to visit.

 

[Siegfried]

I did say too, not instead of. Am not by any means suggesting that you should not complain to BA but can't agree that Qantas have done nothing wrong. Under Australian law (presuming that where the OP is from) if you say you will do something under a contract there is a funny little idea that you actually have to do it, regardless of whether this is outsourced to a 3rd party. So I object to the we can't/won't do anything attitude.

As for efficiency well would have to seem there is no evidence in this thread to date that complaining to BA has been either efficient or effective. The OP did point out their entitlement and it was apparently rejected out of hand.

Interesting. Under the assumption that a QF WP has a contractual relationship with QFF, the statement that you have access to the BA 1st lounges when in fact it is not "guaranteed" could be held to be a fraudulent or negligent misrepresentation. If QFF do have a formal arrangement with BA, then a complaint to QFF would be the correct course of action, as the WP and QFF are the parties to that contract. Its similar to a contract with a builder - if there is a problem with the wiring in a new house, you rely on and enforce the contract with the builder, instead of chasing the sparky who did the actual work.

Of course, in practical terms, attempting to enforce the contract with QFF would be useless. This was just one of those random thoughts that occur late at night

 

[anat0l]

I just did a quick cruise through the BA site, and I couldn't find anything about OW Emerald member having access to BA lounges. There were statements to the effect that BA Gold status is OW Emerald equivalent, and that Gold members get access to BA and partner first lounges, but no specific statement that it is bilateral.

There is a more explicit statement on the OW site in respect of Emerald members having access to BA 1st lounges, but I think its interesting that there is nothing on the BA site (unless of course I just didn't find it).

You're right - it isn't on the BA website. I've always found this pretty sad, but so be it.

There was a BA cheat sheet somewhere (it is in PDF form) and I can't remember where it can be found. It was a table which shows what kinds of members get access to what kinds of lounges operated by BA (as well as guesting rights). It not only included BAEC status members and BA F and J customers, but it also included oneworld elites and QP members. I believe this cheat sheet was a BA document of sorts, not just something that someone conjured up and put BA branding on it, but I could be wrong. But, if that were created by BA, that would be the only evidence that BA recognise lounge access rights for oneworld elites.

 

[JetLagged]

Mrs MatF and I will be travelling through LHR a couple of times at the end of the year (flying QF, either Y or Y+), and we fully intend making use of the F lounges. I'll be decidedly unhappy if this happens to us. Might print out the oneworld Emerald entitlements page and take it with us!!

Mat - I have used the First Lounge in Terminal 3 on at leats two occasions now - was flying QAN, one time I was flying J, the last time I did get an points upgrade to F,

Be that said, each time I have been received warmyly as a OW Emerald flyer - so I am pretty sure that you and Mrs MatF will have no problems. But yes, good idea of preint out an easy to read and digest copy - as the BA dragons can be (not always) as severe as the Melbourne QP ones!

 

[Dave Noble]

Given that the person was already in the lounge and then approached it does not seem to me to be anything to do with access based on pretty coloured cards, but that for whatever reason they decided that they did not want to accommodate the specific person in the lounge

It may be unpleasant, but there is nothing that can realistically be done; if BA wants to refuse to serve a specific person, they can. It seems that once determined that not a 1st class passenger that they wanted him gone

 

[anat0l]

Given that the person was already in the lounge and then approached it does not seem to me to be anything to do with access based on pretty coloured cards, but that for whatever reason they decided that they did not want to accommodate the specific person in the lounge

It may be unpleasant, but there is nothing that can realistically be done; if BA wants to refuse to serve a specific person, they can. It seems that once determined that not a 1st class passenger that they wanted him gone

An intriguing (although slightly disturbing) perspective. It reminds me of those signs in a pub etc. which state "Management reserves the right to refuse entry at any time for any reason". An airline lounge is not much different, so you're basically saying they can exercise the same right.

As you say, it wouldn't matter by the colour of their card, let alone in this instance it was the OP failed to fly in an "eligible" class. It could well be (not necessarily revealed reason of) race, skin colour, appearance or just someone-doesn't-like-you....... and the best thing you can do is cop it on the chin and move on....

 

[MarcB]

I experienced problems accessing the Terraces lounge in SFO back in April. I am QFF Gold and have used the BA Terraces lounge in other ports, but was denied access on this occassion. On this occassion, it was a Qantas staff member in that lounge that denied me access - telling me that Qantas had assigned me to the Sakura lounge. I protested but as it was only 20 mins till boarding, I did not push it.

On my return home, I complained to QF and after a month of back and forth, it was confirmed that the lounge was wrong and I should have had access. All I got was an apology - which I thought was pretty bad form on QFs behalf. I am considering raising the issue again with Qantas for consideration higher up the chain.

 

[dk4]

Personally, I would contact QFF on the 13 PLATINUM number, and speak with one of their high quality reps. (Forget about BA, they have already shown their disinterest in the OPs custom, and I reckon there would be little more than lip service to any complaint voiced their way.)

Access rights to lounges are a function of QFF membership, and it is Qantas which has decided that the OP qualifies for access to a BA First Lounge when flying 1W. It is QFF that sent the information pack advising of this privilege (along with a QFF platinum card / with oneworld emerald logo), AND it is QFF that is presumably paying BA (when WPs choose to take up this offer).

Qantas needs to be informed that one of their business partners is not following through on their obligations, which are presumably written up in some sort of contract involving the two airlines.

I would advise the QFF rep what happened (with as much detail as possible, date/time/location etc), ask if I was treated correctly according to the QFF terms, and then advise the rep that I would like this followed up at the highest levels between QF & BA management (also ask if I should write into "customer care" about this - if so, then address the written mail directly to the QANTAS CEO). Additionally, I would ask to be advised of the outcome, and expect some form of compensation for the whole episode. (Which should include a personal, written apology, from the rep who booted the OP out of the BA lounge.)

Again, I think that having QFF looking into this is the only route likely to bring a result, as they are the ones issuing the card (and terms and conditions related to its use), because WPs are one of THEIR most frequent fliers.

However, if there was some other more reasonable reason for the summary evacuation from the Flounge, not alluded in the original post...

 

[Dave Noble]

An intriguing (although slightly disturbing) perspective. It reminds me of those signs in a pub etc. which state "Management reserves the right to refuse entry at any time for any reason". An airline lounge is not much different, so you're basically saying they can exercise the same right.

As you say, it wouldn't matter by the colour of their card, let alone in this instance it was the OP failed to fly in an "eligible" class. It could well be (not necessarily revealed reason of) race, skin colour, appearance or just someone-doesn't-like-you....... and the best thing you can do is cop it on the chin and move on....

Indeed. It doesn't sound like a systemic issue with BA not granting OW Emerald access in general ( and indeed I had no issues getting access a few weeks ago there )... as an aside for those advocating taking copies of the OW rules to try n lay down the law, test it out with an AA Platinum card and attaining access to the QF Business lounge at Sydney T3. QF deliberately and intentionally flouting OW Policy

 

[docjames]

It took some convincing (and much reading of the fine print at the bottom of their A4 sized list of allowed cards) to convince BA Terraces T5 that QP Member+1 were entitled to access when travelling BA.


Took no convincing at T3 departing on QF.

 

[MelUser]

I think it has something to do with BA's attitude.

For example, they have a first class check in queue which is only for people travelling in First Class, then they have a first class checkin queue for everyone else (ie those with oneworld access to the first class check in queue but not travelling first class).

Qantas on the other hand have a different attitude. For example, you can be a business class passenger travelling domestically in fully paid up J class and (unless you have status) will not let a single guest (even if guest flying with Qantas on a non-business class fare) with you into the lounge.

On the other hand you could be a Qantas platinum frequent flyer travelling on a $29 jetstar fare and they will let you into the domestic business class lounge together with 2 guests who may be travelling no where and the 3 of you are permitted to enter the business lounge and stuff your faces full of food and drink not withstanding that this detracts from the amenity of the lounge.

I think BA values First Class passengers above those not travelling in First Class but with emerald one world status.

QF on the hand values emerald one world status passengers above those travelling in paid premium cabins without status.

 

[Dave Noble]

Qantas on the other hand have a different attitude. For example, you can be a business class passenger travelling domestically in fully paid up J class and (unless you have status) will not let a single guest (even if guest flying with Qantas on a non-business class fare) with you into the lounge.


I think BA values First Class passengers above those not travelling in First Class but with emerald one world status.

QF on the hand values emerald one world status passengers above those travelling in paid premium cabins without status.

I don't blame BA placing a value on 1st class over status; makes perfect sense to me ; that they provide a separate 1st class lounge at LHR for actual 1st class passengers shows this

The flaw in the argument there is to do with business lounge access.

QF indeed, allows a business passenger access with no guest; the same rule applies to BA and indeed is the OW policy

BA will also allow a OW Emerald access to the 1st class or business lounge (not concorde room) with 1 guest ; same as Qantas

Dave

 

[Dave Noble]

Aaaah...interesting pick up. I wonder why someone hasn't pinged QF on this one.

Perhaps QF would argue themselves out of a corner by saying that although it is called a Domestic Business Lounge, the Business part is cosmetic to the name and does not imply the class of the lounge. They could then treat it as a non-oneworld lounge like the BA CCR and impose any entry rights it wants onto it.

If they had called it a 1st class lounge then would have been fine. But they have chosen to call it a business lounge yet choose to ignore OneWorld policy. Hardly puts them in much of a position to complain if their members get refused admission to another lounge. I do know of people with BA Silver and AA Platinum who have raised issue with respective schemes yet nothing has been done about the systemic breaches.

As far as the one off refusal of the OP, I would let it go; complaining won't serve any purpose; from experience it doesn't seem like there's a BA policy to refuse OW Emeralds access and next time will likely be fine , though if it is due to way dressed/presented etc, then perhaps dress more smartly if that was the issue

Dave

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Jump on twitter and have a cough. Apparently that's what you do when BA sucks.

 

[Smackbum]

As far as the one off refusal of the OP, I would let it go; complaining won't serve any purpose; from experience it doesn't seem like there's a BA policy to refuse OW Emeralds access and next time will likely be fine , though if it is due to way dressed/presented etc, then perhaps dress more smartly if that was the issue

Dave

So because it happened to someone who doesn't dress as smartly as you then it is OK? How about if a Dragon came up to you in a lounge (any lounge) and said "Sorry - you don't look like the sort of person we want here, so we have unilaterally downgraded your published rights. Please push off, there's a good chap."

I think it is absolutely the wrong thing to do to let someone else be discriminated against in ANY walk of life. Yes - even the triviality of lounge access.

 

[thewinchester]

There was a BA cheat sheet somewhere (it is in PDF form) and I can't remember where it can be found. It was a table which shows what kinds of members get access to what kinds of lounges operated by BA (as well as guesting rights). It not only included BAEC status members and BA F and J customers, but it also included oneworld elites and QP members. I believe this cheat sheet was a BA document of sorts, not just something that someone conjured up and put BA branding on it, but I could be wrong. But, if that were created by BA, that would be the only evidence that BA recognise lounge access rights for oneworld elites.

I think I just located what you're referring to thanks to Flyer Guide and an FT posting:
FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - The Ultimate BA Guide FEEDBACK Thread

They are JPEG's, and look like they are straight from BA internal documentation given the fonts, styling and look/feel.

BA's lounge access for QF is available from:
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7010/qfffsyf4.jpg

I went looking for this information on BA's Agents website (Speedbird Club), and the only reference to the topic was on the Zimbabwean website - which simply referred back to the main BA site.

 

[Dave Noble]

So because it happened to someone who doesn't dress as smartly as you then it is OK? How about if a Dragon came up to you in a lounge (any lounge) and said "Sorry - you don't look like the sort of person we want here, so we have unilaterally downgraded your published rights. Please push off, there's a good chap."

I think it is absolutely the wrong thing to do to let someone else be discriminated against in ANY walk of life. Yes - even the triviality of lounge access.

my like or dislike irrelevnt; uk law provides for this and the lounge is in the uk

 

[NM]

Qantas on the other hand have a different attitude. For example, you can be a business class passenger travelling domestically in fully paid up J class and (unless you have status) will not let a single guest (even if guest flying with Qantas on a non-business class fare) with you into the lounge.

I had no issues with 3 guests (all in Y on same flight) joining 3 business class (award tickets) passengers into Sydney T3 lounge. Just asked politely and welcomed in. None had any QFF status, one (me) has OW Emerald status.

 

[NM]

Unless we find out the basis upon which the passenger was removed from the lounge, its all just speculation. And we are most unlikely to hear from anyone at BA to provide us with the reason for the removal.

I do believe the passenger has the right to question BA as to why he was removed - was it his dress standard, behaviour, travel class or lounge capacity that resulted in the removal.

The OP's single post on this forum suggest it was travel class, but its been discussed here that travel class should not be a reason for F lounge access denial for a Qantas Platinum FF member travelling on a OneWorld flight. So there may well be more background information that has yet to be presented here.