Finding Business Class Reward Seats – Why Is It Still So Difficult?

[PayRewardsFinder]

Hi everyone,

I'm interested to hear how other members go about finding international Business Class and First Class reward seats, particularly when using points accumulated through programs such as pay.com.au's PayRewards.

One of the biggest frustrations seems to be having a healthy points balance but then spending hours searching different airline websites, comparing loyalty programs and trying to work out where reward seats are actually available.

I've been working on an independent project called PayRewards Finder, aimed at making this process easier. We're still in the development and testing stage, and I'm particularly interested in understanding the challenges experienced frequent flyers face.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on a few things:

• Which airline loyalty programs do you find offer the best Business Class reward availability?
• Do you use tools such as Seats.aero, AwardTool or other reward-seat search platforms?
• What's your biggest frustration when searching for premium reward seats?
• Would having multiple airline reward programs searchable in one place genuinely make a difference?

I'm especially interested in hearing from members who accumulate PayRewards Points through business spending and then transfer them into airline loyalty programs.

I'm not affiliated with pay.com.au, and this isn't an official pay.com.au product.

I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions from those who have been navigating reward bookings for years.

Thanks, and looking forward to the discussion!

 

[freqflyer77]

It's difficult due to a lack of reward seats.

Creating (yet another) search tool won't change that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The difficulty with the plethora of existing award seat finders… and there are many… is that airlines have restrictions on visibility based on your status, and in some cases, your points balance.

 

[CaptJCool]

The other difficulty is the 15 million members competing for the same 1/2 seats per flight opened up as Classic Rewards when once there was half or quarter of that

That spawned the join other programs where 95% less of the total membership residing in a place nowhere near Australia would be chasing the same Oz-Euro seats that you are

 

[elanshin]

By not creating these tools publicly Supply of reward seats are not increasing (possibly even decreasing). Ease of access and information is what's making it much harder to find. When its 100k award searchers vs 1m vs 2m etc the odds of success decrease each time.

But if you're serious, ask yourself a question first - what advantage do you propose over existing award finders? I can tell you that most of them are not necessarily lacking in their core functionality in today's game and have a much bigger existing audience.

If you genuinely created an advantage, I'd personally keep it quiet or run a concierge service first. Otherwise you're just going to be blasting server/computing bandwidth away.

Airlines also play a cat and mouse game with information about redemptions where they do change their processes so that its harder to "search".

Just some examples of this:

It used to be common to release all award fares in class brackets (using QF as an example) U for Business, X for economy etc. That was easy to find and as more users used tools, they changed that by default the awards are first released without the booking class codes.

Then I assume finders were scraping sites for the awards and now there are many seats locked behind status and login.

It used to be awards are released like clockwork on the dot at specific times. This is increasingly rare now.

There are other things we're starting to see increasingly more as airlines are basically trying to beat the award sites. Point of Commencement is one that hides quite a few JAL tickets for example.

Edit: I suggest trialing a few of these paid/free award sites and I think you'll see how capable they are. Maybe run a search like ASA - EUR on seat.aero.

 

[AuSammy]

It's difficult due to a lack of reward seats.

Creating (yet another) search tool won't change that.

Yeah! As someone who puts in the hard yards and effort into using QF multi search to create itineraries for myself and a couple friends from the scraps available, the last thing we need is another tool, another effluencer, another website, another instagram account making it easier for lazier people to find and grab the very limited number of seats made available by airlines.

End of rant.

 

[sudoer]

It might take a couple of years, but I think it will become easier to find awards seats now CC churning in Australia is largely dead. We just need existing QFF and VFF balances to deplete.

 

[elanshin]

It might take a couple of years, but I think seats will become easier to find awards seats now CC churning in Australia is largely dead. We just need existing QFF and VFF balances to deplete.

CC churning is dying, but insurance buying, mortgage churning and other bonuses are way up.

They cost a lot more and thus QF and their partners are now happily peddling this. I don't expect the points balance to drop. Just a change on whos got the points.

Plenty of people asking if its worth switching to QFF earning mortgages on fb groups and other places.

 

[sudoer]

CC churning is dying, but insurance buying, mortgage churning and other bonuses are way up.

SUBs from insurances and mortgages aren't new, they have been around for years.

But they also don't scale the same way CCs have done in Australia until recently, and definitely won't make up the shortfall because:

• credit worthiness requirements for a credit card are much lower than mortgages
• several credit cards can easily be held at once, that's far more difficult to do with mortgages
• those who can afford home ownership often have a joint mortgage, vs churning cards on two separate credit files
• churning mortgages is not just extremely time consuming, it's often very costly (due to less competitive interest rates)

A couple who were previously earning 800k-1m points from CC churning would now be maxing out at 200-300k if they churned their joint mortgage once a year and maybe bought some insurance.

Churning aside, many small business owners and corp professionals will also see a ~50% dip in their spend-based earnings.

In my mind, QFF/VFF points liabilities dropping as a result of the surcharge ban and shifting CC landscape is guaranteed.

 

[freqflyer77]

I think it will become easier to find awards seats now CC churning in Australia is largely dead.

Hard disagree.

Nothing is going to become easier. Mainstream public will still collect points as they are addicted, and airlines will continue limiting reward seats whenever they can make more money selling those seats for cash.

The only thing I can think of that would genuinely lead to more reward availability is travel demand dropping significantly - and with people being created faster than aircraft - that's not happening.

 

[sudoer]

public will still collect points as they are addicted

Using what methods....?

They may want to collect points, but once they realise they need to open 6 credit cards (at a cost of $3k) for a return business flight to Asia, then needing to pay a further $1.5k in taxes, I can't see many casual churners continuing to bother.

The only thing I can think of that would genuinely lead to more reward availability is travel demand dropping significantly

This is exactly my point. QF and VA will not be printing as much currency required to book long-haul J/F, so demand will naturally fall for award inventory though their programs once existing balances are depleted.

My prediction is that it'll be easier to find the inventory, but not easier to book it, because earning the volume of points required will be far more difficult.

 

[freqflyer77]

Using what methods....?

They may want to collect points, but once they realise they need to open 6 credit cards (at a cost of $3k) for a return business flight to Asia, I can't see many continuing to bother.

Do you really think Qantas would just let its very profitable loyalty program lose engagement or become less profitable?

If one way to earn points disappears, they’ll just create or expand others. They might not have the same potential value but the general public won't care.

 

[sudoer]

Do you really think Qantas would just let its very profitable loyalty program lose engagement or become less profitable?

"Let" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. This isn't by Qantas' choice - it's an external market force causing this through the surcharge ban.

If one way to earn points disappears, they’ll just create or expand others.

That's what they are trying to do with the 'SC on the ground' initiative. They are trying to shift engagement and get QFFs addicted to chasing status instead of points, because they know it will become almost impossible to get value from churning SUBs in Australia, and status benefits cost them next to nothing to deliver in the short term.

They are supposedly also looking at overseas transfer partners to soften the blow.

Is Chase About To Announce 2 New Transfer Partners?

Rumor has it that Chase will soon announce Cathay Pacific Cathay and Qantas Frequent Flyer as its newest airline transfer partners.

upgradedpoints.com

 

[Cynicor]

I agree with Sudoer- even my own points gaming has dropped markedly. I’ve got millions over various programs I can’t use and am now racing expiry dates to get anywhere on most.

 

[GrahamBRI]

points accumulated through programs such as pay.com.au's PayRewards.

I'm not affiliated with pay.com.au, and this isn't an official pay.com.au product.

Interesting approach to market....... You are not "official" or "affiliated", but you have incorporated pay's trademarked name "PayRewards" into your business name and adopted their colour scheme....... good luck

 

[drron]

Hard disagree.

Nothing is going to become easier. Mainstream public will still collect points as they are addicted, and airlines will continue limiting reward seats whenever they can make more money selling those seats for cash.

The only thing I can think of that would genuinely lead to more reward availability is travel demand dropping significantly - and with people being created faster than aircraft - that's not happening.

I agree with you but for a different reason. We are not just in competition with other Australians but the world due to the proliferation of bloggers.'
Just look at some of the sign on bonuses in the USA.