AMEX rejection

[Waddygib]

Have you been churning in the last 2 years?

Amex Platinum is probably the easiest card in the market to get approval for so if it isn't churning it must be something else fairly major in you bureau (multiple defaults, really really low score). Or they think it is fraud.

 

[Spomasan]

Have you been churning in the last 2 years?

Amex Platinum is probably the easiest card in the market to get approval for so if it isn't churning it must be something else fairly major in you bureau (multiple defaults, really really low score). Or they think it is fraud.

I’ve had probably 3-4 different cards in the last 2 years. I have a good credit score so can’t be that. I thought they would consider that I held my previous Amex for a fairly long time. I’ll ask for a review and see if anything comes of it.

 

[Waddygib]

That's probably the churning that got you then, assuming you cancelled all 4 of them

 

[Brucetiki]

Hi all

So I held the velocity platinum for around 5 years and cancelled it two years ago. I have now been rejected on my recent platinum application. My income is well over what is required and I currently don’t have another credit card. What are my chances if I ask to them to review my application? Has anyone gone through this process?

Thanks

No chance. They wouldn't even try with me when I queried a rejected limit increase

 

[burneracc]

No chance. They wouldn't even try with me when I queried a rejected limit increase

Semi related, any insight into how CLIs work in Australia? In the US they have the rule of approving requests up to 3x the current limit every 6 months, so wondering what we have here. Does a CLI request do an external credit check too, or can they just do it internally?

 

[Waddygib]

External credit check not required but banks would probably take the opportunity to do it as they are restricted in how frequently they can do this for existing accounts (especially the good ones). Their own internal scoring engines would be better than an Australian bureau score and is what would be used to make the decision.

No multiple rule that I know of but big difference is debt capacity check and income verification requirement in Australia needs to be re-done for limit increase.

 

[Brucetiki]

Semi related, any insight into how CLIs work in Australia? In the US they have the rule of approving requests up to 3x the current limit every 6 months, so wondering what we have here. Does a CLI request do an external credit check too, or can they just do it internally?

Amex do an external credit check when you apply for a limit increase, but then don't take your credit score into account when rejecting an application

 

[Waddygib]

Amex do an external credit check when you apply for a limit increase, but then don't take your credit score into account when rejecting an application

They do take it into accoun,t in two ways: 1. it is an input into their decision engine (but is only a relatively small minority of the weight) and 2. It is an auto-reject below a certain (quite low) level.

So it only really has an impact if its really low. If your bureau score is high and you were rejected, it was due to something else in your bureau profile (like history of churning), some other factor the model identified, or you failed debt capacity test based on your income and other debts (this last one not applicable to the platinum card).

 

[Bacchus71]

Blessing in disguise. Rejected twice for AMEX Velocity Platinum card, but just approved for Westpac Altitude Velocity Black card. 180,000 points, here they come!

 

[MelbFlyer]

I don't even consider AMEX anymore, they've rejected both my wife and I back in 2024 for no valid reason.

Their justification was as per below:

"We're writing to let you know that, unfortunately, we're unable to approve your application at this time based wholly or partly on your credit information received from Veda, a Credit Reporting body in Australia."

&

It is important for you to be proactive in checking the accuracy of the credit information that Credit Reporting Bodies have about you because"
- AMEX relies upon information from Credit Reporting Bodies as well as information provided by you
- Factors that are often taken into account when declining a request for credit may include your income level, other resources, current debts, other commitments, employment, credit history including bankruptcies, defaults, serious credit infringements, number of credit applications and repayment history."

We've both got excellent credit scores / payment history and always apply for cards when we've closed others (keeping our liabilities as low as possible) - I can only think that it's due to us churning cards.

After the AMEX rejection, I took a gamble and applied for a Bank of Melbourne Qantas Amplify Platinum card and was approved almost instantly.

More recently, I applied for a NAB Qantas Premium card and was approved within 60 seconds of application completion (I do bank with them though and I had a recent NAB rewards card in Q3 of last year), digital card was added into Google Pay and I started spending within 30mins.

AMEX is just being unnecessarily difficult IMO.

 

[andyrb]

I don't even consider AMEX anymore, they've rejected both my wife and I back in 2024 for no valid reason.

There'd be a valid reason, not just one you agree with.

We've both got excellent credit scores / payment history

So?

I can only think that it's due to us churning cards.

And there's your reason. It's been said here often enough that a common factor across rejections is a history of churning, so ....

AMEX is just being unnecessarily difficult IMO.

I disagree. They're just choosing not to offer cards to people that don't fit their criteria/profile.

 

[MelbFlyer]

There'd be a valid reason, not just one you agree with.

If they can provide a firm reason, I'll make the determination as to whether it is valid or not.
If they can't (like they did, and just provide a generic statement), then my opinion stands.

So?

I'd imagine that this is an important thing when factoring whether or not to accept or decline.

And there's your reason. It's been said here often enough that a common factor across rejections is a history of churning, so ....

Yes, I've mentioned that it was from 2024 that my applications were rejected, I was adding my experience.

I disagree. They're just choosing not to offer cards to people that don't fit their criteria/profile.

That's fine and I'll agree to disagree, hence not considering AMEX for cards.

 

[Waddygib]

If they can provide a firm reason, I'll make the determination as to whether it is valid or not.
If they can't (like they did, and just provide a generic statement), then my opinion stands.



I'd imagine that this is an important thing when factoring whether or not to accept or decline.



Yes, I've mentioned that it was from 2024 that my applications were rejected, I was adding my experience.



That's fine and I'll agree to disagree, hence not considering AMEX for cards.

If your credit history is good, and you find you are being approved by other banks (so your debt capacity is good enough for the regulators) then by process of elimination it is churning that is the issue.

An approve/decline decision is just a case of "will the potential profit from MelbFlyer offset the risk of MelbFlyer". If MelbFlyer is very low risk, but the potential profit is negative because he will scarper in the first year after Amex spent $1000+ to bring him on board, it is a decline.

 

[MelbFlyer]

If your credit history is good, and you find you are being approved by other banks (so your debt capacity is good enough for the regulators) then by process of elimination it is churning that is the issue.

An approve/decline decision is just a case of "will the potential profit from MelbFlyer offset the risk of MelbFlyer". If MelbFlyer is very low risk, but the potential profit is negative because he will scarper in the first year after Amex spent $1000+ to bring him on board, it is a decline.

100% understand this and appreciate the alternative view / response.

I guess I just don't fit into the mold of their target customer - that being long term customers who don't chop and change / take advantage of sign-up bonuses.

If that's the case, that's their business decision. I personally think that they're behind the times if that's how they're going to operate moving forward. Not many customers are loyal these days / are more switched on to move if there's a better deal.

Their deals aren't as standout as they used to be anyway.

Just my opinion.

 

[Waddygib]

Dude, it's not about standards. People who chop and change cards to take advantage of sign up bonuses are literally a loss-making proposition for issuers. Curious why you think they should want you as a customer.

As an aside, identifying and blocking churners actually means sign up offers can be bigger than they otherwise would be. And churners (which other banks seem not to have figured out how to block as effectively ) are the main reason they are dropping.

 

[andyrb]

And churners (which other banks seem not to have figured out how to block as effectively )

It's entirely possible the banks don't care as much.

Let's say someone takes out a credit card with one of the big four banks (or any, for that matter). Their age, income bracket and spend pattern probably provides sufficient data for marketing purposes - and being pushed mortages, refinancing, loans, etc.

Amex, offering a single product range, don't have that ability.

Years ago I took out a credit card with ANZ. It was a condition of the card you had to open a transaction account too, which I ended up using as my primary. I remember receiving a sign up bonus, but can't remember what it was. It was likely worthwhile for ANZ in terms of data and financial.

 

[Rich]

Dude, it's not about standards. People who chop and change cards to take advantage of sign up bonuses are literally a loss-making proposition for issuers. Curious why you think they should want you as a customer.

As an aside, identifying and blocking churners actually means sign up offers can be bigger than they otherwise would be. And churners (which other banks seem not to have figured out how to block as effectively ) are the main reason they are dropping.

I don't know about loss making. Not much anyway. You might pay $400 for the card and need to spend $5000 ($500 for the bank at 1%) in order to get your 100k points. How much is 100k of points plus the card etc really costing the bank?

 

[Waddygib]

I don't know about loss making. Not much anyway. You might pay $400 for the card and need to spend $5000 ($500 for the bank at 1%) in order to get your 100k points. How much is 100k of points plus the card etc really costing the bank?

100K of points would cost a smidge over $1K.

That $5000 of spend, they will make no where near $500 (that would actually be 10%). Depending where you spend, they will make between $10 ($75 of revenue less $60 cost of buying points from qantas etc, and $5 of funding costs) and a loss of $25 (same costs but only $40 of revenue).

The $400 (or $1,650) annual fee is a wash as it is used to fund benefits like travel credit, lounge access, hotel membership etc.

Latter would be the case if the spend was at a supermarket, former would be the case if the spend was at Sniip (on ATO only) or at ATO direct itself. Eveything else somewhere in between.

To make anywhere near recovering cost of the sign up bonus you would need multi-years of the customer spending at the right merchants, and hopefully revolving and paying interest as well.

Cards are not a very lucrative business in Australia.

 

[Rich]

100K of points would cost a smidge over $1K.

That $5000 of spend, they will make no where near $500 (that would actually be 10%). Depending where you spend, they will make between $10 ($75 of revenue less $60 cost of buying points from qantas etc, and $5 of funding costs) and a loss of $25 (same costs but only $40 of revenue).

The $400 (or $1,650) annual fee is a wash as it is used to fund benefits like travel credit, lounge access, hotel membership etc.

Latter would be the case if the spend was at a supermarket, former would be the case if the spend was at Sniip (on ATO only) or at ATO direct itself. Eveything else somewhere in between.

To make anywhere near recovering cost of the sign up bonus you would need multi-years of the customer spending at the right merchants, and hopefully revolving and paying interest as well.

Cards are not a very lucrative business in Australia.

Oops slight calculation error by me!