UM issue highlights systemic VA decline across all areas - will it get better?

[grubbidok]

Hi all I know we've all complained VA being enhanced bit by bit but we've just had a bit of a catalytic issue that highlights the systemic decline of VA. It seems a bit catalytic TBH.

Will try not to put too many details for privacy but we had an unaccompanied minor flight coming back from a large (i.e. 1 million plus pax club, top 15 in Oz) regional airport.

Family member and Little G arrived at check in desk ~40mins before departure but no-one at VA desk. After speaking to QF agent and security suggested they go through security (with luggage) and go to gate to sort out. This obviously took some time and they got to gate "1 minute too late" and were denied because "unaccompanied minor bookings take too long" and to "go away and find some other way home". (these are all quotes from the gate staff).

In fairness they should have ideally been earlier but due to unforeseen circumstances (recent weather events induced roadworks) the trip took twice as long as expected (from 100km away). But they still arrived *before* official check in closes and the check in was already abandoned (and UM can't do online). Why have an official policy of 30mins for check in if staff won't be there? Unlike normal bookings there is no capacity in app or online to manage - we could not contact VA to let people even know they were on the way. I understand that they were "advised" to be earlier, but that is not the same as policy.

With VA staff abandoning them and not even letting them know if other flights existed, family member called us and we tried to resolve on guest centre. First call took 20mins to answer, transferred us 4 times and then hung up. We called again, less time on hold (~15mins) and were told it was our fault for not having her there 2 hours before her, and then told there were no seats for the three flights later that day - yet online we could book both reward and $ seats. We were told their system is different and did we want to buy a ticket for another day? We were also told that we did not meet the "advised time" so the policy time was not relevant (??).

By this time someone more senior at the airport from VA that had not been invloved in any of the interactions had managed to locate family member, and organised new booking on later flight ($150 - we will seek refund) - but only because "she had 10mins spare now and now only, take it or leave it". We advised the guest centre it had been sorted and got redirected to a survey (!!)

Anyway, apologies for the rant, but it struck me as highlighting that *every* part of VA is now less functional and worse than it was previously. When everything goes alright, the service is okay but for long time WPs like me an my wife we have noticed it is not as good as it once was

But for us the great part of VA was when things went wrong, as VA staff were solutions-focused and displayed a little humanity. This is not less good as much as it has fallen off a cliff. Even is there were systems issues staff would still try and find solutions - which you appreciated even if you had to pay because at least they were keen to find solutions. Now it is the computer says no airline - and no-one is either empowered to help or interested in helping. Staff appear to think there is now zero obligation to help you and even if you are in policy, they will try and avoid responsibility and shift blame to you even if you are within policy.

The traditional support structures that were there are no longer fit for purpose - if you can even get a hold of someone online (we were on hold for an hour to book the tickets originally) they can't do anything and they seem to have *less" capacity than you do online. Gate staff have absolutely no discretion to be helpful even if they wanted to. Every announcement seems to be an enhancement.

Everything seemed to be dysfunctional:
- Staff aren't following policy
- Support structures aren't resourced or interested
- There appears to be a cultural shift of finding ways to avoid responsibility rather than support

The reason I left QF as a SG moving to WP was because of a few catalytic experiences when things went wrong - not because of the things themselves (it happens) but because there was no attempt to resolve issues.

This feels the same. When I made the move from QF to VA for this issue people told me I was cursed but repeated attempts back at QF validated my decision (at least then).

Is this another catalytic moment of an airline that won't get better or just one of those unpredictable clusterf**ks? TBH this moment does feel catalytic and every VA announcement seems to be showing an airline in decline, and it just doesn't seem like it will be redeemable. And every contact point I had was to premium/platinum, so god knows how people without status are being treated).

I will make WP this year, but is it worth continuing or should I hope someone from QF is here to give me a status match to give them another go after nearly 10 years WP at VA?

Anyway, apologies for the rant. Is this other people's experiences and representive, or am I over-reacting and are there some bright spots I'm missing and should focus on?

 

[RooFlyer]

That sounds like a terrible experience with no one at check-in within the check-in period being the start of the failures.

I don’t know why Qantas people would have directed you through security with luggage. That was never going to turn out well.

Sounds like Hobart. The check-in agents attend to the gate after checking closes and with 20/20 hindsight if it was Hobart there should’ve been someone around to retrieve someone back to check in.

I can’t say my experience is anything like that, but I’m not organising sn unaccompanied minor and the stresses that entails and of course anything can happen to anyone on a particular flight.

I always say if you’re dissatisfied with your airline, change it.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Hi all I know we've all complained VA being enhanced bit by bit but we've just had a bit of a catalytic issue that highlights the systemic decline of VA. It seems a bit catalytic TBH.

Will try not to put too many details for privacy but we had an unaccompanied minor flight coming back from a large (i.e. 1 million plus pax club, top 15 in Oz) regional airport.

Family member and Little G arrived at check in desk ~40mins before departure but no-one at VA desk. After speaking to QF agent and security suggested they go through security (with luggage) and go to gate to sort out. This obviously took some time and they got to gate "1 minute too late" and were denied because "unaccompanied minor bookings take too long" and to "go away and find some other way home". (these are all quotes from the gate staff).

In fairness they should have ideally been earlier but due to unforeseen circumstances (recent weather events induced roadworks) the trip took twice as long as expected (from 100km away). But they still arrived *before* official check in closes and the check in was already abandoned (and UM can't do online). Why have an official policy of 30mins for check in if staff won't be there? Unlike normal bookings there is no capacity in app or online to manage - we could not contact VA to let people even know they were on the way. I understand that they were "advised" to be earlier, but that is not the same as policy.

With VA staff abandoning them and not even letting them know if other flights existed, family member called us and we tried to resolve on guest centre. First call took 20mins to answer, transferred us 4 times and then hung up. We called again, less time on hold (~15mins) and were told it was our fault for not having her there 2 hours before her, and then told there were no seats for the three flights later that day - yet online we could book both reward and $ seats. We were told their system is different and did we want to buy a ticket for another day? We were also told that we did not meet the "advised time" so the policy time was not relevant (??).

By this time someone more senior at the airport from VA that had not been invloved in any of the interactions had managed to locate family member, and organised new booking on later flight ($150 - we will seek refund) - but only because "she had 10mins spare now and now only, take it or leave it". We advised the guest centre it had been sorted and got redirected to a survey (!!)

Anyway, apologies for the rant, but it struck me as highlighting that *every* part of VA is now less functional and worse than it was previously. When everything goes alright, the service is okay but for long time WPs like me an my wife we have noticed it is not as good as it once was

But for us the great part of VA was when things went wrong, as VA staff were solutions-focused and displayed a little humanity. This is not less good as much as it has fallen off a cliff. Even is there were systems issues staff would still try and find solutions - which you appreciated even if you had to pay because at least they were keen to find solutions. Now it is the computer says no airline - and no-one is either empowered to help or interested in helping. Staff appear to think there is now zero obligation to help you and even if you are in policy, they will try and avoid responsibility and shift blame to you even if you are within policy.

The traditional support structures that were there are no longer fit for purpose - if you can even get a hold of someone online (we were on hold for an hour to book the tickets originally) they can't do anything and they seem to have *less" capacity than you do online. Gate staff have absolutely no discretion to be helpful even if they wanted to. Every announcement seems to be an enhancement.

Everything seemed to be dysfunctional:
- Staff aren't following policy
- Support structures aren't resourced or interested
- There appears to be a cultural shift of finding ways to avoid responsibility rather than support

The reason I left QF as a SG moving to WP was because of a few catalytic experiences when things went wrong - not because of the things themselves (it happens) but because there was no attempt to resolve issues.

This feels the same. When I made the move from QF to VA for this issue people told me I was cursed but repeated attempts back at QF validated my decision (at least then).

Is this another catalytic moment of an airline that won't get better or just one of those unpredictable clusterf**ks? TBH this moment does feel catalytic and every VA announcement seems to be showing an airline in decline, and it just doesn't seem like it will be redeemable. And every contact point I had was to premium/platinum, so god knows how people without status are being treated).

I will make WP this year, but is it worth continuing or should I hope someone from QF is here to give me a status match to give them another go after nearly 10 years WP at VA?

Anyway, apologies for the rant. Is this other people's experiences and representive, or am I over-reacting and are there some bright spots I'm missing and should focus on?

It doesn’t sound like a good experience but in fairness to VA the website clearly states you should turn up an hour before departure with UM on Domestic booking.
40 minutes is 20 minutes too late.

FWIW I agree with @RooFlyer that going to the gate was not a good option but it sounds like the family aren’t frequent travellers.

 

[Mattg]

It doesn’t sound like a good experience but in fairness to VA the website clearly states you should turn up an hour before departure with UM on Domestic booking.
40 minutes is 20 minutes too late.

I agree that they should have turned up earlier. I equally think it's very poor for the VA staff to tell a paying customer "go away and find some other way home". That isn't really OK.

 

[markis10]

equally think it's very poor for the VA staff to tell a paying customer "go away and find some other way home"

“Large regional airport” would suggest their not VA staff, still pretty poor but contractors often exhibit a care factor of zero, you get what you pay for.

 

[AuSammy]

Years ago on my first few Virgin flights I thought, wow QF are going to get a run for their money. Bright friendly enthusiastic staff, nicely presented planes.

My last flight with them was 18months ago when I resolved JQ was better value, better plane and better staff. VA Non reclining worn out seat on very old plane, staff who CGAS and a small bottle of water and way more expensive.

 

[Ansett Nostalgic]

Appalling attitude from these VA staff but par for the course with the diminishing standards of customer service in Australia these days. Please name and shame them.

 

[henrus]

Something doesn’t quite add up with the story and I think something is missing. I find it hard to believe that the desks were empty 40 mins prior and if true you’ve got a compelling case for a refund or even a charge back of the full original ticket.

If you don’t feel comfortable posting the airport or flight can you at least share the scheduled departure time, arrival time at the VA check in desks and the arrival time at the gate?

 

[Rayesfeg]

we could not contact VA to let people even know they were on the way

Why would they need to contact VA and let them know that they were on the way if they were going to get there before check in closed? To echo a comment above, this does make me think that there is more to the story.

I could be wrong and if they got there before check-in was supposed to close according to Virgin policy, this is entirely Virgins fault and you should raise a complaint. Virgin will investigate your claim and be able to identify what time the check in staff left the check in counters.

 

[markis10]

Something doesn’t quite add up with the story and I think something is missing. I find it hard to believe that the desks were empty 40 mins prior and if true you’ve got a compelling case for a refund or even a charge back of the full original ticket.

Just confirms to me they are not VA staff. Regional Airports contractors will do check in from the time the flight opens, at T-1 or thereabouts a number of them will close their check in and assume gate duties for the incoming flight .

 

[grubbidok]

Thanks all - a few have asked some queries so here goes:
- They arrived at front desk at 1045 for a 1125 flight (40mins). No-one was there, and QF and airport staff confirmed they'd gone in to gate (suggesting as others did they may have been contractors) and there was no other way to connect with them but to go through security. Arrival time at the gate itself was 29mins before - which admittedly was 1min too late (which is what they were told) - but was only because of the faffing about to get there due to no-one at check-in. Boarding had not yet started and didn't commence for about 10mins after they arrived.
- I know that ideally they should be there 60mins before, but VA documents pretty clearly show this is a "recommendation", not a requirement and that policy is check in closes 30mins before flight. FWIW due to cyclone/flooding last week they had left home 1hr earlier than they would usually need to but got caught up in even longer delays en route.
- By notifying VA I meant that there was no process to check in (or pre-check) online. The only reason I raised it is because if this had been done it may have been logged that there was intent to fly and staff may have waited until policy time (30mins) to leave the check-in counter rather than go in earlier (or given they may not have been contractors maybe they just didn't care).

I guess the key point for me was even if they *did* miss the policy cut-off and we had to book an entirely new flight there were no systems in place that demonstrated any desire to help. Airport staff dismissed them and told them to leave entirely, VA desk took ages to get through and hung up, and then when we got to someone we were told there were no flights later that day (although we could see both points and cash options online) and that was a final decision as their system was different.

Every interaction was technocratic, no humanity and not even a hint of any desire to find a solution. Every interaction was rude, impersonal and the person on the other end seemed irritated to have to do something.

I appreciate that airport staff wanted to start boarding the flight they missed in the next 10mins but there was not even a "sorry you are too late, we will just do this first (boarding) then we can put you on the next flight but it will cost $" provided which at least would have given my family member and young child a little less anxiety because they would have at least known there was a way home instead of 1.5hrs of limbo.

Man plans and god laughs and no matter how prepared you are at some point the travel gremlins will arise. For me VAs USP had been great assistance at finding solutions when things did go wrong to get you on your way. Sometimes this didn't cost $ and sometimes it did but there was always a proactive desire to help find a solution of something went wrong.

I feel as though that is gone and there so has VA's USP. And it's the main reason why I moved all my travel from QF way back when after experiences there.

I know some airlines are still much, much worse, but would be keen to know if VA has fallen below its competitors and it's worth moving, or this is just part of post-COVID flying and VA has just fallen back in line with the others and something we need to now resign ourselves to?

 

[mel-world]

I'm very sorry for all the inconvenience and worry that the circumstances entailed. Some of the behavior by VA contracted staff was difficult to understand from any customer facing organisation.

However, as a WP... if this departure was from a non-hub airport in an area potentially affected by a cyclone and floods - would you not have a advised your family member and UM to plan to arrive 3 to 4 hours before departure in case of delays. A recommendation is there for a reason, especially if the weather is bad.

Do you think QF, JQ, US or European airlines would be much better at non-hub airports? I've had difficulty finding available staff in major ports on occasions.

 

[Scarlett]

G'day @grubbidok.
I’ve found VA to be mediocre at most things these days. Like most companies they have a slogan that is 100% marketing and 0% outcomes. (“Bring on wonderful”)

I think the crux of your argument with VA is going to come down to two things and two things only:

1. Is their published min check in time 30 minutes from your departure location? That means no local exceptions or asterisk. The UM may play into this but if the terms used for UM are ‘recommended’ or ‘should’ rather than a definitive ‘must’ then the check in closing time is what matters.

2. Probably more importantly, can you PROVE that your family members were at the check in desk 40 minutes before departure? ie: is there a photo of them there at a specific time? Were calls made at a specific time?

With these two things you have the evidence to mount an argument, without them I suspect you’re relying on goodwill from VA or that’s it and you’re done with them.

 

[grubbidok]

However, as a WP... if this departure was from a non-hub airport in an area potentially affected by a cyclone and floods - would you not have a advised your family member and UM to plan to arrive 3 to 4 hours before departure in case of delays. A recommendation is there for a reason, especially if the weather is bad.

This is coming up a lot so do want to nip it in the bud.

Everyone is woulda shoulda coulda'ing about the family member (or myself) should have been "more prepared". They left more than 4hours for a 95km trip that usually takes ~80mins and was essentially all highway until they hit the airport turn-off in town with no delays shown on Google Maps or local reports -weather was good this was just in case roadworks, washouts or repairs from the week prior may be in play. They were familar with the area, have experience with flying and airports and with the impacts of the recent weather situation.

Things did not go to plan and it was not an ideal time to arrive but the fact is that is that even with all those unforeseen issues they *did* make it by VA's actual stated policy cut-off time and staff were absent at check-in even though there were ticketed passengers who had not yet arrived and check-in time had not yet finished. Everything else flowed from this. They only made it on time because they were prepared and gave what in ordinary circumstances even with the recent cyclone was above and beyond what would be ample extra time.

I get that this can be a VA appreciation site but at this point someone is going to try and suggest because they didn't choose to bring a tent and arrive the night before and camp out in the carpark they should have expected it.

 

[mel-world]

To answer the question in the thread title, it probably will not get better.

 

[Rayesfeg]

G'day @grubbidok.
I’ve found VA to be mediocre at most things these days. Like most companies they have a slogan that is 100% marketing and 0% outcomes. (“Bring on wonderful”)

I think the crux of your argument with VA is going to come down to two things and two things only:

1. Is their published min check in time 30 minutes from your departure location? That means no local exceptions or asterisk. The UM may play into this but if the terms used for UM are ‘recommended’ or ‘should’ rather than a definitive ‘must’ then the check in closing time is what matters.

2. Probably more importantly, can you PROVE that your family members were at the check in desk 40 minutes before departure? ie: is there a photo of them there at a specific time? Were calls made at a specific time?

With these two things you have the evidence to mount an argument, without them I suspect you’re relying on goodwill from VA or that’s it and you’re done with them.

I really think it might even be more simple than this:
IF VA policy states check-in closes 30 minutes before departure, OP should raise a complaint to VA stating that nobody was at check in within that timeframe, VA will investigate.
Thought the IT department, they will be able to see when the last check-in agent logged out of their computer/locked their screen (they can not leave them unlocked), heck they might even be able to request airport footage, and if OP is telling the truth, VA will see that the check-in desks were unattended from, say 45 mins prior to departure, and will prove OP is not in the wrong.

OP please raise a complaint with VA if you haven't done so already. It will be interesting to see what they come back with.

 

[Happy Dude]

So is check-in cut-off time 30mins, 40mins or 60mins for a UM?

 

[eastwest101]

Sounds like Mackay Airport, going by the departure time and the footprint of localised flooding etc. I imagine that its an outsourced Swissport or Dnata agent port, my previous dealings with UM's at these airports have also been characterised by a lot of eye-rolling when checking in UM's and that was before Covid, and as we all know, the quality of ground staff and customer service went through the floor during and after the Covid/administration stage.

Its not really the same airline at all now - you are more likely to get better customer service on the ground flying Jetstar domestic rather than on Virgin domestic now.

Agree with other posters that a timestamped digital photo of empty check-in desks before check-in time has closed off will be the only way for the OP to win this one. A good learning lesson for others though, that as soon as you see empty check-in counters when they should be attended, its worth a photo in case of unexpected dramas later on.

 

[markis10]

Sounds like Mackay Airport, going by the departure time and the footprint of localised flooding etc. I imagine that its an outsourced Swissport or Dnata agent port,

Nope try Oceania Ground Services Manager - Mackay Airport - Oceania Ground Force

 

[justinbrett]

Regardless of what you should have done, if you were at check in before check in closed and nobody was there, that’s the airline’s problem IMO.

I would have taken a selfie in front of the empty desks and sent it to VA before check in closed, they really can’t argue with that.