Qantas' Impending Change to Tokyo Flight Schedule

[justinbrett]

Any known update on this? I'm hoping for some scheduling changes for some flights next year.

If there's changes (and that's not a guarantee), I'd expect them for the Northern Winter schedule which starts in late October.

 

[Himeno]

In April, they got an extension allowing them until the end of November to start using the slot. 15 more weeks. We should have heard something by now.

 

[justinbrett]

In April, they got an extension allowing them until the end of November to start using the slot. 15 more weeks. We should have heard something by now.

We're still very much in the slot negotiation period.

QF won't announce anything until it's confirmed.

 

[aaa99]

Slightly OTT.. Was going to fly HND-SYD-MEL the other and my SYD-MEL flight got cancelled. The online system provided me this scenic detour. I was tempted, but the flight to BNE was from NRT and I was almost at HND.
It was CR ticket, I probably wouldn't have earned any SC on FJ (as points club) for all that effort.

 

[markis10]

We're still very much in the slot negotiation period.

QF won't announce anything until it's confirmed.

Australia has been allocated one night and two day slots for some time now, there is wriggle room in the timings but not between night and day. I suspect Qantas is looking how their fleet is panning out with AY starting to settle down. From memory a380 heavy checks end early Nov, giving credence to the theory we may see A380s operating in/and from HND each night requiring a lengthy layover for the aircraft on the ground and a two ship rotation. We live in interesting times…..

 

[justinbrett]

Australia has been allocated one night and two day slots for some time now, there is wriggle room in the timings but not between night and day. I suspect Qantas is looking how their fleet is panning out with AY starting to settle down. From memory a380 heavy checks end early Nov, giving credence to the theory we may see A380s operating in/and from HND each night requiring a lengthy layover for the aircraft on the ground and a two ship rotation. We live in interesting times…..

I'm referring to the specific slot trading between airlines, not the regulator allocation of slots.

 

[evanb]

We're still very much in the slot negotiation period.

QF won't announce anything until it's confirmed.

IATA slot conference for NW25/26 was 9-11 June and return deadline was 15 July. We're well passed the key points for slots, so it's not a slot issue.

 

[Himeno]

Australia has been allocated one night and two day slots for some time now, there is wriggle room in the timings but not between night and day. I suspect Qantas is looking how their fleet is panning out with AY starting to settle down. From memory a380 heavy checks end early Nov, giving credence to the theory we may see A380s operating in/and from HND each night requiring a lengthy layover for the aircraft on the ground and a two ship rotation. We live in interesting times…..

Unless something has changed recently, HND won't allow an A380 to be parked on the ground all day. The airport will only allow 1 A380 on the ground at a time during the night slot period (due to congestion with domestic operations during the day period).
If QF want to use an A380 to HND, they would need to do something like arrive 2200, depart 0000 or arrive 0330, depart 0530. Both options present issues with ground transport, more so with the morning option.

 

[evanb]

Unless something has changed recently, HND won't allow an A380 to be parked on the ground all day. The airport will only allow 1 A380 on the ground at a time during the night slot period (due to congestion with domestic operations during the day period).
If QF want to use an A380 to HND, they would need to do something like arrive 2200, depart 0000 or arrive 0330, depart 0530. Both options present issues with ground transport, more so with the morning option.

Where do you get that from? The AIP only indicates when/where it can/can't be operated and even shows the taxi routes to off-stand long term parking for A380. I suspect some people confuse the note in the capacity declaration limits on long term parking for code F which only applied to unloading - this doesn't apply to parking though.

 

[markis10]

Where do you get that from? The AIP only indicates when/where it can/can't be operated and even shows the taxi routes to off-stand long term parking for A380.

Agree, specific limitations are outlined in the NS25 capacity statement which limits A380 ops to 2300-0600, only certain runways only with RNAV approval required.

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

I’ve received a number of flight timing changes today for flights out of HND (JAL domestic flights booked with QF) in December. Seems like many slot and time changes underway in general.

 

[logicallysynced]

I’ve received a number of flight timing changes today for flights out of HND (JAL domestic flights booked with QF) in December. Seems like many slot and time changes underway in general.

I also received the same for domestic out of Osaka, it might be a JAL thing.

 

[evanb]

I’ve received a number of flight timing changes today for flights out of HND (JAL domestic flights booked with QF) in December. Seems like many slot and time changes underway in general.

Given the size and scope of their HND slot portfolio JL can make internal changes to their domestic slots at any time. For example, if they want to switch a 10:00am departure to ITM with the 10:15am to cough they don't have to wait for the IATA calendar to do this as the slots are fungible.

The IATA calendar becomes important when seeking new allocations, independent time adjustments or coordination with other airports. It's only relevant to Qantas since they'll likely be seeking a new slot or time adjustment. If it's a swap it could happen anytime, unless either party needs a time adjustment.

 

[Harrison_133]

I also received the same for domestic out of Osaka, it might be a JAL thing.

Mainly a quirk of Japanese airlines. All Japanese airlines are currently in the process of finalising their winter schedules. Flight schedule finalisation in Japan happens around this time every year (for winter schedule) and any flights booked before are subject to time and aircraft changes.

JAL did theirs yesterday, which is why people would be getting change emails. ANA is set to do the same within the next week or so. For ANA Group airlines like Air Do or Solaseed, bookings for the next season don't actually open until flight schedule finalisation takes place.

How slots come into play, I'm not an expert on.

 

[Medicine_Shoes]

I'm assuming there will be no change to schedules considering how close we are to November now. It makes it hard to book accomodation in Tokyo for late Jan as I don't know where we are flying into.

 

[logicallysynced]

I'm assuming there will be no change to schedules considering how close we are to November now. It makes it hard to book accomodation in Tokyo for late Jan as I don't know where we are flying into.

I thought they had a deadline before they lost the slots completely, super curious what’s happening behind the scenes

 

[elanshin]

I thought they had a deadline before they lost the slots completely, super curious what’s happening behind the scenes

They have timeline for IASC I believe to start operations as per the decision. However given in Australia there is going to be no challengers they can hold off for quite a while asking for extensions. Now technically someone else can come in and challenge, but that is realistically just VA and they're not about to challenge for it.

So realistically until the Japanese side starts getting angsty and issue some use it or lose it threats, QF is going to probably just sit around and eventually get to whatever their problem with TYO is.

Personally, I think Japan has now evolved into a trickier market where demand in offpeak isn't as strong anymore but during peak it's still skyhigh. So that makes it a bit harder to plan for. Do they operate just 3 HND flights as mentioned in this application? is it double daily SYD with alternating MEL/BNE on the other days? Is it add a 4th NRT flight from SYD? what happens when they do SYD - CTS seasonal addition etc. How does JQ network factor into all of this.

I'm assuming there will be no change to schedules considering how close we are to November now. It makes it hard to book accomodation in Tokyo for late Jan as I don't know where we are flying into.

Assume no change - although if you're booking a hotel for transit purposes (or short overnight stay) a hedge is to book fully refundable hotels.

 

[logicallysynced]

They have timeline for IASC I believe to start operations as per the decision. However given in Australia there is going to be no challengers they can hold off for quite a while asking for extensions. Now technically someone else can come in and challenge, but that is realistically just VA and they're not about to challenge for it.

So realistically until the Japanese side starts getting angsty and issue some use it or lose it threats, QF is going to probably just sit around and eventually get to whatever their problem with TYO is.

Personally, I think Japan has now evolved into a trickier market where demand in offpeak isn't as strong anymore but during peak it's still skyhigh. So that makes it a bit harder to plan for. Do they operate just 3 HND flights as mentioned in this application? is it double daily SYD with alternating MEL/BNE on the other days? Is it add a 4th NRT flight from SYD? what happens when they do SYD - CTS seasonal addition etc. How does JQ network factor into all of this.

Assume no change - although if you're booking a hotel for transit purposes (or short overnight stay) a hedge is to book fully refundable hotels.

At the very least the IASC notifications and requests for extension are public still right? That way us enthusiasts can still keep score for the time being

 

[evanb]

At the very least the IASC notifications and requests for extension are public still right? That way us enthusiasts can still keep score for the time being

Last time they buried it deep in the website and didn't send it out via email as it wasn't inviting public comment or an outcome of public comment. Plenty of people check it regularly for other reasons, so we'll know pretty quickly if/when they do receive an extension.

 

[madrooster]

At the very least the IASC notifications and requests for extension are public still right? That way us enthusiasts can still keep score for the time being

They will appear here Determinations and Decisions - Japan