Too many tourists - local backlash

[mel-world]

Did anyone see the Foreign Correspondent episode on 'Spain's Toxic Tourism' lately?

Foreign Correspondent

It did cover the usual story of AirBnB dominating the residential market forcing essential workers and even hospitality employees into sub-standard or distant accommodation - think living out of cars or in caravans.

But it also showed just how busy places like Barcelona and Venice have become so that nobody really enjoys the experience and local residents really have no privacy anymore. Obviously a lot of economies are reliant on mass tourism but, as FF, do we have an obligation to treat the location and its residents with respect. I'm afraid that does not happen all too often, especially when multiple cruise shops and large tour groups are all in one location every day over season.

 

[Forg]

I hope it’s still possible to go to popular tourist destinations in shoulder seasons & the experience not be like visiting the Easter Show. Because I very much enjoyed my trip with friends to Venice & to Paris & to Rome, and would like to re-enjoy (and with more than a uni-student budget) with my wife who’s not been there. Japan’s another one, except I’ve not been there myself.

 

[dajop]

Was in Barcelona a couple of weeks ago and whilst it was busy the main sense of over tourism came when encountering large groups who have this uncanny way of being oblivious to everything around them except what there guide is telling them to look at. You have to either go around them or shove your way through, and I can see how locals would get quite annoyed at this.

Of course this says nothing about Airbnb “displacement”. We stayed in a hotel a bit out of things (only 15 mins on train or metro though) and it was distinctly untouristy there, although you could see from the hotels in that area it would get busy when a convention was on.

 

[AuSammy]

A few years back visiting Dubrovnik the impact of cruise lines on the old town was horrendous. It was shoulder to shoulder in the narrow laneways the second day we were there. The ratio of tourists to locals was something like 3:1 or worse.

We were told the local authorities were bringing in new rules for the next season to ban more than 2 ships in port at the same time.

 

[BCons]

Venice has partly solved its over-tourism problem by banning large (or all) cruise ships from the lagoon. We were there before that ban and subsequent intro of a 5 euro visitor fee, and we could not walk in a straight line during the day in early July. I took to accidentally bumping into some of the poseurs going for their umpteenth selfie on the bridge of sighs and blocking traffic. At that time we understood the 5-6 large cruise ships in port were staying for 2 nights, and since the pax get 3 squares a day onboard you can appreciate this sign outside one restaurant:

.

 

[RooFlyer]

At the walled city of Mdina on Malta, there was a polite but obviously aggrieved notice to passers by that per head of residents, Mdina had many, many more tourists than Venice.

 

[VPS]

At the walled city of Mdina on Malta, there was a polite but obviously aggrieved notice to passers by that per head of residents, Mdina had many, many more tourists than Venice.

View attachment 467112

I remember seeing that and there were several families with kids that could have applied to and the parents did zip

 

[Murmal]

I do sympathise with the locals where Toxic Tourism has become such a problem.
The Insta poseurs often don't seem to have any respect or knowledge, the photo is the prize to show 'look where I am', or 'how worthy am I'. Case in point, a recent visit to the 9/11 memorial in NY. I lost count of the laughing, grinning, posing fake postures being staged like it was Disneyland. Appalling respect for where they were and its reverence.
Also can't understand why anyone would want to holiday in such overcrowded European tourist spots in the height of summer when everyone has to queue in scorching heat and pay expensive prices.
Far better to spend more time off the beaten track, enjoy the hospitality of more welcoming folk and avoid the stresses involved with over-tourism. If you can. If not on a cruise.
Far more 'unique' Insta's too.

 

[Happy Dude]

It was an interesting episode @mel-world. There's no doubt that AirBnB causes housing shortages for locals, IMO mainly due to the financial incentives for the owner. Without knowing the specifics, I'd suggest that short-term holiday rentals yield a better outcome than long-term tenants, especially in areas where tourists are always there. I don't think there's any low season in places like Venice.

But we used them widely in our US and Euro-trip in 2023 because hotels for our family (2 adults, 2 kids) were always crazy expensive, and more often than not just two rooms that were sometimes connected. London and Paris hotels within Zone 4 or a decent arrondisment were just ridiculous. But they were always well out of the city centre and we enjoyed the less hectic neighbourhoods and traded off more reasonable prices for time on public transport. It's a world wide issue though and the BCN example just confirmed that it's going to be virtually impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.

I think a lot of the poor tourist behaviour is more noticeable now due to the volume rather than the type of tourists. It's exacerbated because it now seems like every tourist is "making content" of some sort. In that respect, there's no specific offence intended to the host as they'll do the same annoying stuff wherever they are.

 

[jastel]

The more people that go "off the beaten track" the more beaten that track will be...

Everyone that leaves their own town is guilty of it. Doesn't matter if you are walking, in a car, on a boat or a plane. It is not just overseas either, Australia is suffering as well...see the weekends protest.

Cape York is now busier than ever, queues to get your car bogged in a creek while there is an easier road (track) going around it. Gotta get that piccy. Rubbish, pollution and natural degradation follow.
Im sure every area has their own example.

There is no answer, stop the tourists and the locals lose jobs, the economy tanks and we all end up as government employees.

None of this is new...my picture is from Venice 2004.

 

[drron]

There was this discussion not so long ago. Again blaming cruise ships for the problems in Venice cruise ship passengers make up 3% of the total tourist numbers for Venice.
Banning large cruise ships had nothing to do with tourist numbers but protection of the main lagoon. most cruise ships berth at the commercial ports for Venice and most passengers get bussed to the old cruise terminal where they were previously processed when the ships used the main lagoon.

As others have said it is all of us to blame added to by the tik tok, instagrammers, you tubers etc that are now everywhere and intolerant of other tourists.

 

[dajop]

There was this discussion not so long ago. Again blaming cruise ships for the problems in Venice cruise ship passengers make up 3% of the total tourist numbers for Venice.

It's probably not the total numbers, but the concentration and characteristics of cruise ship visits that make them singled out. They tend to be in greater in number in summer (as are overall tourists as well), tend to have limited time in port (say 9-5pm +/-) thus concentrating the presence of visitors and have a lot of organised activities - and these are extremely visible with large groups and someone holding a cruise ship sign. You get a group of 50 people on a walking tour and woe betide any individuals trying to make there way through or around that group (this applies to general tours not those originating in cruise ships), whereas you get 50 individuals, couples or families wandering they all seem to meld smoothly around each other no dramas.

When I made a short visit to Venice with my then 79yo mother last October I looked at cruise ship numbers, some days had no ships, other had small ships (600) and other days had several ships with up to 9000 pax in total. We originally picked a day with none, but delayed the trip and I think ended up with a day with about 1500 in port - not that it was a problem because it started raining when we arrived late morning, and then rained all afternoon and evening (60mm that day), so there weren't masses of people anywhere other than inside

Also I disagree with all the people suggesting that Instagram brigade is causing a problem - I've observed that when a place is genuinely busy (or genuinely over-touristed) this brigade doesn't stand a chance, people literally ignore their presence, do them no favours and probably disrupt whatever shots they're trying to take anyway. The crowd doesn't care for instagrammers. (I've noticed that people get about 2-3 seconds to take a photo, that's about the courtesy limit). When it's less busy they seem to be more of a problem though.

 

[mel-world]

I agree with many of the comments made already. Cruise groups - in fact any big group - are a major issue. I do find selfie takers and instagramers a pain at popular sights. A large family taking most of the prime viewing spot to arrange themselves and then take numerous photos and videos really stretches my normal good humor and causes me to plonk myself right in the middle of their picture. But then, I'm a grumpy old man so any abuse directed my way has little affect. While we have recently started taking cruises - to less crowded locations - we are mostly independent travellers so are at the mercy of the large groups invading our space.

I do think I'm more concerned about the proliferation of AirBnB and the like forcing genuine residents onto the streets. It does seem that local authorities are powerless to reduce the impact of the digital economy - be it housing or Uber or food deliveries. We all love them too much and are prepared to pay their premium prices. My only experience with AirBnB was in central London and it was such a bad experience that I very quickly retreated to a Hotel. I can see the attraction for families though but not if essential workers cannot afford to live anywhere close to where they work.

 

[drron]

In Venice cruise ship passengers make up 3% of the total tourist numbers. Possibly less now as the larger ships berth some distance from Venice.
What about all the land based tourism companies like Trafalgar etc. Then various other countries fly in lots of tourists by. air. I particularly notice the very large Chinese groups who really don’t consider others.

And the irony for me is that the second worst country group is the Italians. Yes in my experience they even beat the Americans.

The problem is people recognise groups of cruises and lump all the ships present that day in together but land based groups as individual groups.

 

[Forg]

You can easily tell the cruise ship passengers … they’re the ones coughing, sneezing, probably throwing-up etc.


I actually suspect the general vehemence WRT cruise ships is probably because of how much damage they do, they’re just filthy. So they get blamed for everything from beating-up nuns through to the conversion of the US government to a fascist dictatorship.

 

[dajop]

In Venice cruise ship passengers make up 3% of the total tourist numbers. Possibly less now as the larger ships berth some distance from Venice.

Venice, for the reasons you mention (various tour groups that have all sorts of ways of reaching the place), is probably not so bad, and I don't think you can narrow down a nationality - whether it be Americans, Chinese, Italians, Russians, Australians, Brits or Germans or anywhere else all can be equally annoying whether from a cruise, a bus or simply joining a land based tour. Nevertheless, I'd still to choose to be there on a day when no cruises are in town than one where 6000 are emptied into the city.

However, probably the worst place I've seen the impact of cruises was in Kotor, Montenegro. Only has a population of 10,000 to begin with, and was there the day before, during, and the evening/morning after the big 2000 pax cruise ship docked. The character of the place was totally different for the 6-7 hours the cruise ship was in, the old town completely swamped (however, to be fair, I just headed further along the bay and it was peaceful a mere 10km away, so still OK, and had the added bonus of seeing the huge ship pass through the narrow bay as it departed).

 

[Happy Dude]

I'll add school or some other youth-based groups to the list. We noticed that they seemed to convene and mill about in packs in tourist areas like Trafalgar Square and Trevi Fountain or the Spanish Steps. Not necessarily behaving badly but their number made them conspicuous. They'd leave the bad behaviour for inside the Louvre and Vatican. Saw them on trains a lot too.

 

[Forg]

I'll add school or some other youth-based groups to the list ... Saw them on trains a lot too.

You mean like when you make the mistake of catching the train home from the city when all the private school kids are on it ... ?!?!

 

[Happy Dude]

You mean like when you make the mistake of catching the train home from the city when all the private school kids are on it ... ?!?!

The joys of the daily commute Not so much an issue in CBR.

 

[BCons]

Venice, for the reasons you mention (various tour groups that have all sorts of ways of reaching the place), is probably not so bad, and I don't think you can narrow down a nationality - whether it be Americans, Chinese, Italians, Russians, Australians, Brits or Germans or anywhere else all can be equally annoying whether from a cruise, a bus or simply joining a land based tour. Nevertheless, I'd still to choose to be there on a day when no cruises are in town than one where 6000 are emptied into the city.

However, probably the worst place I've seen the impact of cruises was in Kotor, Montenegro. Only has a population of 10,000 to begin with, and was there the day before, during, and the evening/morning after the big 2000 pax cruise ship docked. The character of the place was totally different for the 6-7 hours the cruise ship was in, the old town completely swamped (however, to be fair, I just headed further along the bay and it was peaceful a mere 10km away, so still OK, and had the added bonus of seeing the huge ship pass through the narrow bay as it departed).

Worst places ? - try Ketchikan or Juneau - entire waterfronts of both small towns (tho Juneau is state capital) are owned by cruise ship companies - selling watches, jewelry, notions and little else. Place is near-deserted after 4-5 cruises leave in the arvo. We stayed in both places for a few days last Sept and learned to stay away from the waterfront.