Qantas' New A321XLR

[SYD]

Saw the A321XLR at Sydney today. Was parked at gate 2 and seemed to be doing a series of SYD-MEL test flights
View attachment 457560

Still here 4wks later!

Well, apparently about to head back to MEL as QFA6105.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Interesting… the picture in the official blurb: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/fleet/qantas-a321.html seems to suggest there’s an emergency door aft of the wings. But the picture above seems not? While you can see the door plug, it’s not outlined for emergency purposes.

 

[DejaBrew]

Interesting… the picture in the official blurb: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/fleet/qantas-a321.html seems to suggest there’s an emergency door aft of the wings. But the picture above seems not? While you can see the door plug, it’s not outlined for emergency purposes.

Photoshop strikes again! The official blurb also showcases an unregistered "aircraft" (a.k.a. an "artist's impression")

 

[moa999]

Report in airliners.net that OGB is due for its 2nd test flight this morning in Europe (7pm AEST) which should mean it's on schedule for delivery next week.

 

[moa999]

? While you can see the door plug, it’s not outlined for emergency purposes.

It seems that door is only needed for the high density Configs (mostly LCCs).
Eg. Air Asia - AK Airbus A321neo - AeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans
With a lovely 236 Y, one forward and two aft toilet config

Jetstar's 321neo is similar with 232Y - JQ Airbus A321neo LR - AeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans

 

[clifford]

It seems that door is only needed for the high density Configs (mostly LCCs).
Eg. Air Asia
With a lovely 236 Y, one forward and two aft toilet config

Jetstar's 321neo is similar with 232Y

Just another example of how Qantas prioritizes cost over customer safety.

 

[Cloud9]

Just another example of how Qantas prioritizes cost over customer safety.

Qantas prioritises their executives having three ply in the company bog over customer safety.

 

[AuSammy]

Just another example of how Qantas prioritizes cost over customer safety.

How so? These parameters are determined by the relevant authorities as far as I am aware; just like the minimum hosties etc. If it meets the requirements of the relevant authorities how are they deprioritising safety?

Some posts on here just seem disappointingly to be an irrelevant winge for a winge sake without basis.

 

[moa999]

Future OGB now out on its 2nd test flight.

D-AZYY Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

Track D-AZYY flight from Hamburg Finkenwerder

www.flightaware.com

Solid 1hr 44min flight

 

[jakeseven7]

Saw it in MEL on Monday, looks very slick. Puts the 737 max to shame, but I guess not a fair comparison.

 

[SYD]

It seems that door is only needed for the high density Configs (mostly LCCs).
Eg. Air Asia - AK Airbus A321neo - AeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans
With a lovely 236 Y, one forward and two aft toilet config

Jetstar's 321neo is similar with 232Y - JQ Airbus A321neo LR - AeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans

AA doesn’t have the aft door and wouldn’t it be nice if any QF’s subfleet had something like this!

AA Airbus A321 XLR - AeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans

Hola > American Airlines > Airbus A321 XLRThe American Airlines Airbus A321 XLR is configured 20J 12W 123M. This type is expected to enter service in 2025Please note, the seat plan illustrated here is still preliminary and has not yet been fully scrutinised by aeroLOPA so some variations from...

www.aerolopa.com

 

[evanb]

AA doesn’t have the aft door and wouldn’t it be nice if any QF’s subfleet had something like this!

It does, it's just blocked, same as QF's. Also same as QF A380s aft right upper deck door.

 

[SYD]

It does, it's just blocked, same as QF's.

Yeah, it was noted up thread about the “plug”. More a comment about not needing it active based on the seat config.

But would still like to see QF do something similar to AA. Otherwise, there’s zero chance I’d do semi longhaul on one…

 

[moa999]

And seemingly the 2nd flight for D-AZYY was the customer acceptance flight

VH-OGB about to fly to its new home as QF6041

VH-OGB Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware

Track VH-OGB flight from Hamburg Finkenwerder

www.flightaware.com

 

[evanb]

But would still like to see QF do something similar to AA. Otherwise, there’s zero chance I’d do semi longhaul on one…

Sure, but AA have ordered it to fulfil a medium to long mission, with the aircraft mainly expected to serve thinner trans Atlantic routes, combined with SFO/LAX-JFK/BOS transcons. They have a fleet of older A321s with a similar config that they utilising on the transcons already but struggle with poor utilisation as these don't have the range for trans Atlantic. However, they can't generate appropriate yield on other domestic sectors, so the plan is for a bigger fleet and to intermingle with a trans Atlantic fleet to generate necessary utilisation.

On the other hand, Qantas won't utilise it on longer missions, hence the product. People still seem to be convinced that Qantas are somehow bullshitting us and that the XLR with this config is going to be flying long missions, despite their consistent indications that it's a B737 replacement. Yet, on another thread here today, everyone is also speculatively convinced that they're going to be flying 4-class A350s to Asia in a few years.

Markus Svensson's discussion at CAPA a few weeks back was once again pretty clear that it's a B737 replacement. He even explained why it's range is important to Qantas, specifically highlighting how the B737 is payload restricted on westbound transcon sectors. Now if a B737-800 is payload restricted, a A321neo is going to be far more payload restricted.

 

[elanshin]

Sure, but AA have ordered it to fulfil a medium to long mission, with the aircraft mainly expected to serve thinner trans Atlantic routes, combined with SFO/LAX-JFK/BOS transcons. They have a fleet of older A321s with a similar config that they utilising on the transcons already but struggle with poor utilisation as these don't have the range for trans Atlantic. However, they can't generate appropriate yield on other domestic sectors, so the plan is for a bigger fleet and to intermingle with a trans Atlantic fleet to generate necessary utilisation.

On the other hand, Qantas won't utilise it on longer missions, hence the product. People still seem to be convinced that Qantas are somehow bullshitting us and that the XLR with this config is going to be flying long missions, despite their consistent indications that it's a B737 replacement. Yet, on another thread here today, everyone is also speculatively convinced that they're going to be flying 4-class A350s to Asia in a few years.

Markus Svensson's discussion at CAPA a few weeks back was once again pretty clear that it's a B737 replacement. He even explained why it's range is important to Qantas, specifically highlighting how the B737 is payload restricted on westbound transcon sectors. Now if a B737-800 is payload restricted, a A321neo is going to be far more payload restricted.

The a332 dom config was supposed to be just a dom plane, but are now currently put to heavy Int'l duty. How an aircraft is planned doesn't necessarily mean how it ends up being used eventually.

If a long haul a321XLR variant goes tech in the future - do you cancel the service or replace it with a short haul version. I think these kinds of scenarios may end up happening.

 

[SYD]

Sure, but AA have ordered it to fulfil a medium to long mission, with the aircraft mainly expected to serve thinner trans Atlantic routes, combined with SFO/LAX-JFK/BOS transcons. They have a fleet of older A321s with a similar config that they utilising on the transcons already but struggle with poor utilisation as these don't have the range for trans Atlantic. However, they can't generate appropriate yield on other domestic sectors, so the plan is for a bigger fleet and to intermingle with a trans Atlantic fleet to generate necessary utilisation.

On the other hand, Qantas won't utilise it on longer missions, hence the product. People still seem to be convinced that Qantas are somehow bullshitting us and that the XLR with this config is going to be flying long missions, despite their consistent indications that it's a B737 replacement. Yet, on another thread here today, everyone is also speculatively convinced that they're going to be flying 4-class A350s to Asia in a few years.

Markus Svensson's discussion at CAPA a few weeks back was once again pretty clear that it's a B737 replacement. He even explained why it's range is important to Qantas, specifically highlighting how the B737 is payload restricted on westbound transcon sectors. Now if a B737-800 is payload restricted, a A321neo is going to be far more payload restricted.

Yep, it’s definitely a 737 replacement presumably we’ll also see them on TT, as well as transcon.

But, QF keep talking up being able to do medium haul thin routes - in due course.

As for the A350s, the comments over on that thread seem to be complaining that we won’t see 4 class on Asia - apart from SIN (onto LHR), not sure why anyone expects otherwise?

 

[evanb]

Yep, it’s definitely a 737 replacement presumably we’ll also see them on TT, as well as transcon.

But, QF keep talking up being able to do medium haul thin routes - in due course.

As for the A350s, the comments over on that thread seem to be complaining that we won’t see 4 class on Asia - apart from SIN (onto LHR), not sure why anyone expects otherwise?

And TT and transcon are overwhelmingly flown by 737s. QF don't keep talking it up, rather everyone keeps asking them and they keep saying exactly the same thing: that it's a 737 replacement and that they're continuing to explore alternative configs.

 

[SYD]

And TT and transcon are overwhelmingly flown by 737s. QF don't keep talking it up, rather everyone keeps asking them and they keep saying exactly the same thing: that it's a 737 replacement and that they're continuing to explore alternative configs.

QF probably should revise down this page then?

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/fleet/qantas-a321.html

 

[evanb]

The a332 dom config was supposed to be just a dom plane, but are now currently put to heavy Int'l duty. How an aircraft is planned doesn't necessarily mean how it ends up being used eventually.

If a long haul a321XLR variant goes tech in the future - do you cancel the service or replace it with a short haul version. I think these kinds of scenarios may end up happening.

Except this isn't the case. It's become an old-wives tale. In fact, the A330-300s were originally domestic aircraft, before being converted. The A330-200s come from two tranches. The first 10 (EBA/B/C/D/E/F/G/J/K/L - E/F are now freighters) were originally delivered with 202t MTOW with the lower rated thrust engines and the C38 Y265 config, while the later 8 were delivered with 230t MTOW and higher thrust engines but also with a C36 Y268 config (with these also replacing the A330-300s in the domestic schedule).

They have been modified several times over the years, including several cabin reconfigurations. All the A330-200s were domestic aircraft with domestic configs up until this point. When the lie flat seats were installed on them, they were all going to become hybrid international/domestic aircraft. EBA-L were rerated to 233t MTOW and had engine thrusts increased. This modification is not straightforward or cheap, and wouldn't be done unless there was intent for them to fly further. EBM-EBV didn't get a MTOW increase - remained 230t since it just wasn't worth the cost for an additional 3t at the time. EBA-EBL got a higher density cabin because of its higher MTOW allowed it more lifting, whereas EMN-EBV kept a lower density cabin since it would anyway be payload restricted on longer sectors. It inevitably meant that there was a bias in route networks because of the onboard product and people reframed this as being domestic vs international. Even Qantas have referred to it as such from time-to-time.

That said, it was always meant to be a hybrid aircraft from the last reconfiguration. However, more importantly, as the A330-200s got reconfigured, both onboard and technical specs to allow it to evolve. I'm not suggesting that Qantas won't fly the XLR on longer range routes in the future, but they ain't sending this configuration on long haul routes. They may get a different subfleet later on, or reconfigure some, but that's probably a decade away.