Qantas' New A321XLR

[elanshin]

Seems excessive.

Some US Carriers had new types up within a month and nothing like those numbers.

Probably some CASA component they have to sort out as well. The 220 did a lot more.

 

[moa999]

had new types up within a month

Not the case with AAs 321XLR..
They haven't even flown it to the US - American Airlines Has Taken Delivery Of Its 1st Airbus A321XLR & It's Already Grounded

 

[Saab34]

Comments from the CAPA conference from the Domestic CEO
-No firmed up plans yet as to where it will even fly
-2nd due this month, next October.
-Focus is on the fleet conversion noting many other carriers have stuffed it up. Slow and steady.
-wishes the certification process would be faster but it is what it is.
-International isn’t on the horizon initially.
-DPS and PER-BNE are two routes being pushed by his team.

Sounded like DPS will be trialled before any other international attempt.

Sounded like will be like the Virgin A330s first up, first few years just plodded around domestic.

 

[oz_mark]

I've heard some mention it will enter revenue service around the time the second one arrives. Maybe the idea is to have a backup plan!

 

[AIRwin]

-DPS and PER-BNE are two routes being pushed by his team.

QF taking over from JQ?

 

[Saab34]

QF taking over from JQ?

No just switched out its own equipment

He mentioned the issues the -800s have on BNE-PER taking a payload hit, and Melbourne/Sydney to Bali would be good for testing the economics of the thing for an international run, again, taking over from -800s.

 

[moa999]

Sounded like will be like the Virgin A330s first up, first few years just plodded around domestic.

Not unexpected. Interesting that QF still see recliners as appropriate for Bali.

My expectation is the initial aircraft will fly golden triangle, where the J demand is. I don't think you can fit in a PER return between the morning and evening peaks.

Maybe switched onto DPS legs during school holidays when the J demand drops.

Second flight test of OGB must be any day of its to be delivered this month.
On a YT post someone had thrown out Sep 10 as a possible date for first commercial services.

 

[Chrizztofa]

Looks like OGA flew a SYD-PER test flight this morning. Not sure if it's the aircraft's first visit to PER?

I suppose you might be able to schedule a SYD/MEL-PER redeye in between golden triangle flights but I can't imagine it would be popular with only two Y lavatories (or perhaps QF don't expect people to be using the lavatories much since people will be sleeping). Perhaps that'll be saved for when the later deliveries with three lavatories (and ideally, flat beds in J) are delivered.. But with QF short on aircraft and VA no longer competing with their own widebodies, that might free up a couple of A330s for international services?

 

[Aussie_flyer]

162 vs 177 isn't it for the 2 toilets comparing 737 for a321. Not that much different

 

[moa999]

162 vs 177 isn't it for the 2 toilets comparing 737 for a321. Not that much different

Agreed. Rarely a queue on the 737s, and it's only 11% more pax. But QF has said they will all become 1+3 loos eventually.
Business class travellers might struggle more with a 67% increase sharing the front toilet

 

[moa999]

Also just saw this post on airliners.net by FLT420FT who has been on the money for other recent movements - so only two weeks away.

VH-OGB is penciled in to commence it's delivery flight on 23 August as QF6041.
Scheduled to depart from XFW 0900LT on 23 August, arriving into BKK 0115lt 24 August.

After 2 hours on the ground in BKK she will depart as QF6045/24AUG at 0315lt and arrive into BNE at 1515lt 24AUG.

 

[jrfsp]

Agreed. Rarely a queue on the 737s, and it's only 11% more pax. But QF has said they will all become 1+3 loos eventually.
Business class travellers might struggle more with a 67% increase sharing the front toilet

Rarely a queue on short flights (golden triangle) but on DPS / transcon etc I’ve seen the queue half way down the plane - evening flights especially where pax having a few drinks…

 

[texter]

Slightly OT, View attachment 457562coincidentally picked one of these up in Hong Kong yesterday to add to my collection

Box says A321neo but the titles on the body seem to be fine

@aaa99 , can you tell us where this shop is located in HK? Thanks

 

[jb747]

I find it interesting that it needs to do hundreds of flights over two months before entering service. Rex certainly didn’t do as many flights before adding its 737s to the AOC. I just thought with the likes of simulators and the same type already operating in the group, that a month would be suffice.

QF, under various leaders, has separated the "group" into various entities that don't cross over. Presumably these aircraft are being flown by mainline pilots, in which case it's an entirely new aircraft type. Now, there's no shortage of Airbus experience within mainline, but it's all on the 330 and 380, so all of the pilots will need to do some sectors before being qualified to the line. Assuming they have about 10 crews for this aircraft, then 100 sectors is only 5 for each Captain and FO.

 

[aaa99]

@aaa99 , can you tell us where this shop is located in HK? Thanks

West main toys

West Main Toys · Mong Kok

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[evanb]

Seems excessive.

Some US Carriers had new types up within a month and nothing like those numbers.

Probably, but it depends what the goal is. Qantas don't want to start scheduled services until they have two aircraft, so while they're waiting for the second to arrive they're utilising the time for training and familiarisation. This allows them to do far more crew training in-house rather than sending training and check captains to external training providers, etc. Also allows them to get EDTO certification out of the way before scheduled services start. This is a non-factor for US carriers, but was evident with Iberia and Aer Lingus taking circuitous routings until they got certification. I'd imagine how people on here would react if the first few SYD/BNE/MEL-PER/AKL flights had to maintain 60 minute diversion compliance because they didn't yet have EDTO 180.

 

[evanb]

QF, under various leaders, has separated the "group" into various entities that don't cross over. Presumably these aircraft are being flown by mainline pilots, in which case it's an entirely new aircraft type. Now, there's no shortage of Airbus experience within mainline, but it's all on the 330 and 380, so all of the pilots will need to do some sectors before being qualified to the line. Assuming they have about 10 crews for this aircraft, then 100 sectors is only 5 for each Captain and FO.

Current EBA structure has mainline FDC split into two, short and long haul. A321XLR will be short-haul FDC pool meaning those converting from B737-800, not from A330 and A380 (who are long-haul FDC pool). So more extensive conversion courses.

 

[MB123]

Heard today it should be starting revenue services by the end of the month if all goes to plan.

 

[jb747]

Current EBA structure has mainline FDC split into two, short and long haul. A321XLR will be short-haul FDC pool meaning those converting from B737-800, not from A330 and A380 (who are long-haul FDC pool). So more extensive conversion courses.

Yes, and no. The EBA structure does work like that, and has done so ever since QF merged with TAA. But, all that means is that there are two different pay structures, and sets of rules. The pilots can, and do, change from one to the other other. 737 FOs all come from the SO ranks on long haul, and after their time in the little jets will go back to larger ones. The cycle may then repeat when command slots come up. So, you'll have many 737 Captains who were 330 or 380 FOs, and the same for the FOs. Twenty years ago, integration of a new type was more complex, because you had legacy people (from before the merger and the 89 unpleasantness), but that should have all washed out by now.

 

[evanb]

Yes, and no. The EBA structure does work like that, and has done so ever since QF merged with TAA. But, all that means is that there are two different pay structures, and sets of rules. The pilots can, and do, change from one to the other other. 737 FOs all come from the SO ranks on long haul, and after their time in the little jets will go back to larger ones. The cycle may then repeat when command slots come up. So, you'll have many 737 Captains who were 330 or 380 FOs, and the same for the FOs. Twenty years ago, integration of a new type was more complex, because you had legacy people (from before the merger and the 89 unpleasantness), but that should have all washed out by now.

Indeed, however nearly all the A321 conversions are coming from the short haul pool. Long haul saw more retirements during COVID and has also seen a fair bit of hiring recently with a fair bit of emphasis on A380 as flying on the type has increased and A330 since QF will be utilising the A330/350 cross qualification. There will be similar pressure on B787 from 2027 as well.