How would customs know someone has TRS-claimed good(s) on them?

[jkbaus]

Personal integrity and honesty

 

[Viridis]

If I bring in a brand new $2K iPad, it makes no difference if I got it and claimed TRS on the way out, someone else claimed the TRS and gifted it to me, or I bought it overseas (and Australia doesn’t care if you pay overseas duty or not).

If they suspect it is new the onus is on you to prove it was bought in Australia and tax has already been paid.

Do they check this every time? Absolutely not. But the question was about the combination of gifts and TRS and the answer is it’s irrelevant.

What @justinbrett said

You guys are thinking waaay too much on this - Customs have extremely wide discretion and the onus for pretty much everything is entirely on you. People are pulled aside based on intel’, behaviours and the experience of the customs officers observing. Australia has an obvious Customs presence; if you’ve ever gone through the Green Channel in the UK (most of Europe actually) there appears to be no-one there … but they’re still watching

These guys are there every day …. they’ve seen, and heard, it all. My guess would be that if you think you’re pulling the wool over their eyes, you’re not

As the OP correctly points out the requisite information is all available but I suspect (but I certainly don’t know) they have ‘bigger fish to fry’ than trying to reconcile outbound & inbound data to catch a few individuals trying to avoid a few dollars duty.

Which is kind of useless because they have no way of knowing if you left the country wearing it in the first place. In the case of apparel. I wear my rings, over $10k, when did I get them? They aren't wedding/engagement rings

In the ‘old days’ there used to be Form that you could complete prior to departure, you showed evidence of purchase in Australia and the form was stamped by Customs; this would facilitate your arrival, and avoid duty, back in Australia if you were pulled aside.

They are pretty experienced at determining whether items (such as rings) are new or not; if they have any doubt, it’ll be up to you to prove that they are not

Lastly, fwiw, I am a paranoid scaredy-cat and I declare everything over the limit - I have always found Customs incredibly reasonable in their assessments

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What @justinbrett said

You guys are thinking waaay too much on this - Customs have extremely wide discretion and the onus for pretty much everything is entirely on you. People are pulled aside based on intel’, behaviours and the experience of the customs officers observing. Australia has an obvious Customs presence; if you’ve ever gone through the Green Channel in the UK (most of Europe actually) there appears to be no-one there … but they’re still watching

These guys are there every day …. they’ve seen, and heard, it all. My guess would be that if you think you’re pulling the wool over their eyes, you’re not

As the OP correctly points out the requisite information is all available but I suspect (but I certainly don’t know) they have ‘bigger fish to fry’ than trying to reconcile outbound & inbound data to catch a few individuals trying to avoid a few dollars duty.


In the ‘old days’ there used to be Form that you could complete prior to departure, you showed evidence of purchase in Australia and the form was stamped by Customs; this would facilitate your arrival, and avoid duty, back in Australia if you were pulled aside.

They are pretty experienced at determining whether items (such as rings) are new or not; if they have any doubt, it’ll be up to you to prove that they are not

Lastly, fwiw, I am a paranoid scaredy-cat and I declare everything over the limit - I have always found Customs incredibly reasonable in their assessments

The form is still there, but asks for items that can be readily identified, like a camera or computer. It specifically says not to list ‘jewellery’. Not sure if that just means ‘jewellery’ in general, or whether they want you to be specific, about specific pieces, eg ‘large diamond ring, [setting and cut]’

But i guess that would be a conversation to have with customs on the way out of you had single items of jewellery which could exceed limits in return.

 

[Pushka]

It’s an irrelevant issue for me anyway. I never have that much cash to spend on stuff.

 

[anat0l]

Some of this discussion on Customs and onus to prove (which is parallel to the original topic) seems very slippery slope.

I would fathom that most of us would easily carry around $900 or over of goods in clothing, belongings, luggage and electronics every single time we leave and reenter Australia (but of course the majority of it is already used or bought in Australia). What's to stop Customs from saying, "have you paid the duty on all this stuff? Prove it!" Do we need to keep receipts for eternity, and then who is to say the agent just won't claim the receipts are forged, especially if they are in a language other than English (I realise this is a facetious example, but it seems technically, legally possible....)

 

[MARTINE]

Some of this discussion on Customs and onus to prove (which is parallel to the original topic) seems very slippery slope.

I would fathom that most of us would easily carry around $900 or over of goods in clothing, belongings, luggage and electronics every single time we leave and reenter Australia (but of course the majority of it is already used or bought in Australia). What's to stop Customs from saying, "have you paid the duty on all this stuff? Prove it!" Do we need to keep receipts for eternity, and then who is to say the agent just won't claim the receipts are forged, especially if they are in a language other than English (I realise this is a facetious example, but it seems technically, legally possible....)

I had this exact scenario on a trip to the US where (having been a month in Europe and needing clothes to wear) all of the coughpy T shirts and clothes were deemed imported into US.
There is only so far one can argue one’s case with these people
Several hundred dollars later she bid me ‘Have a nice day’

 

[justinbrett]

What's to stop Customs from saying, "have you paid the duty on all this stuff? Prove it!"

Nothing. They do it. As do other countries.

Do we need to keep receipts for eternity, and then who is to say the agent just won't claim the receipts are forged, especially if they are in a language other than English (I realise this is a facetious example, but it seems technically, legally possible....)

Irrelevant, if it’s a foreign receipt obviously no Australian tax has been paid. Australia does not care if you got those goods duty free or on.

There’s a range of different methods of valuing the goods, including how much you paid for it. But its not the only method.

 

[Beautybeast]

I can't see how they don't know because when you apply for the TRS, your name , passport, tax invoice, credit card are recorded.

Nono so I meant for the gift recipient and not the person who claimed the tax. For example A claimed tax and “gifted” the item to B. B wears it or brings it back to Aus, how would the customs know whether the item B is wearing has had tax claimed on?

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:35 AM

How will they know they even need to decide?

Asking all the good questions haha

 

[SYD]

There are of course exemptions (eg most clothing) that’s not included in the $900, regardless of if it’s on your body or in your luggage.

If travelling with someone, you can also “pool” your $900 allowances, which is an easy way to avoid “gifting” stuff in the first place.

But if the total is still above the pool allowance and not exempt, then not declaring is an offence.

 

[Quickstatus]

I can't see how they don't know because when you apply for the TRS, your name , passport, tax invoice, credit card are recorded.

Spec savers

 

[JohnK]

Personal integrity and honesty

Huh. I hope this was in jest.

My wife recently upgraded jewellery in Thailand. There is no way I am paying duty in Australia. Not this lifetime anyway.

P.S. Does anyone seriously keep receipts from 10 years ago which is when we bought my wife's jewellery in Australia and paid Australian GST and never claimed refund? So basically what people are saying is that customs can see wife wearing jewellery and ask for proof of purchase? I have never heard anyone caught up in that situation. That would be a minefield.

P.P.S. I have bracelets, necklaces and rings from early 90's. Would anyone seriously expect me to pay duty at today's value because I do not have any receipts and I could not even tell you where each was purchased.

This is now a silly discussion.

 

[DC3]

These TRS threads just keep on giving, don’t they.

 

[Beautybeast]

Huh. I hope this was in jest.

My wife recently upgraded jewellery in Thailand. There is no way I am paying duty in Australia. Not this lifetime anyway.

P.S. Does anyone seriously keep receipts from 10 years ago which is when we bought my wife's jewellery in Australia and paid Australian GST and never claimed refund? So basically what people are saying is that customs can see wife wearing jewellery and ask for proof of purchase? I have never heard anyone caught up in that situation. That would be a minefield.

P.P.S. I have bracelets, necklaces and rings from early 90's. Would anyone seriously expect me to pay duty at today's value because I do not have any receipts and I could not even tell you where each was purchased.

This is now a silly discussion.

Exactly my thoughts!

 

[justinbrett]

Huh. I hope this was in jest.

My wife recently upgraded jewellery in Thailand. There is no way I am paying duty in Australia. Not this lifetime anyway.

P.S. Does anyone seriously keep receipts from 10 years ago which is when we bought my wife's jewellery in Australia and paid Australian GST and never claimed refund? So basically what people are saying is that customs can see wife wearing jewellery and ask for proof of purchase? I have never heard anyone caught up in that situation. That would be a minefield.

P.P.S. I have bracelets, necklaces and rings from early 90's. Would anyone seriously expect me to pay duty at today's value because I do not have any receipts and I could not even tell you where each was purchased.

This is now a silly discussion.

The discussion is about new items not stuff from the 90s. I’d like to think ABF can tell the difference.

Yes if you buy jewellery in Thailand that’s over the value you have to declare it, but if you don’t reside in Australia they’re not going to charge you if you take it back.

All this stuff is common sense. This is why if you use TRS as an Australian for something worth more than $900 they tell you if you bring it back you’ll have to declare it and pay duty.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Huh. I hope this was in jest.

My wife recently upgraded jewellery in Thailand. There is no way I am paying duty in Australia. Not this lifetime anyway.

P.S. Does anyone seriously keep receipts from 10 years ago which is when we bought my wife's jewellery in Australia and paid Australian GST and never claimed refund? So basically what people are saying is that customs can see wife wearing jewellery and ask for proof of purchase? I have never heard anyone caught up in that situation. That would be a minefield.

P.P.S. I have bracelets, necklaces and rings from early 90's. Would anyone seriously expect me to pay duty at today's value because I do not have any receipts and I could not even tell you where each was purchased.

This is now a silly discussion.

If you wife is wearing more than $900 of jewellery (depreciated value) then it should be declared.

If the item has been overseas for more than 12 months it won’t be liable for assessment anyway.

But the simple way around it is to declare the value leaving australia, so that if questioned on the return there is proof it came from Australia originally. No receipt is required for that.

Plenty of money laundering going on where someone could bring back $10k of jewellery, and be very happy to sell it at a loss to clean the money or get around ASIC reporting.

Any of us could be questioned on it.

 

[JohnK]

If you wife is wearing more than $900 of jewellery (depreciated value) then it should be declared.

I could not tell you what value jewellery my wife is wearing.

When we were engaged and then married I bought her some expensive jewellery and claimed the GST via TRS but they were sitting in Thailand for 18-30 months.

We have bought other things over the years. Some in Australia, some overseas. Never declared and have no conscience either. I don't believe in the honour system.

Any of us could be questioned on it.

I have never heard anyone ever questioned. Maybe it's more common than I think but I guess we can cross that bridge when we see it.

The discussion is about new items not stuff from the 90s. I’d like to think ABF can tell the difference.

Yes if you buy jewellery in Thailand that’s over the value you have to declare it, but if you don’t reside in Australia they’re not going to charge you if you take it back.

All this stuff is common sense. This is why if you use TRS as an Australian for something worth more than $900 they tell you if you bring it back you’ll have to declare it and pay duty.

How can you tell if something is new versus 10 years old or 30 years old?

To be honest I've never heard of anyone declaring jewellery purchased overseas and paying duty in Australia. And I have zero guilt about not paying duty on goods purchased overseas. How would I answer (or wife answer) if questioned?

Customs: Where did you get that $2000 necklace?
Wife: My mum bought it on sale 18 months ago and has been wearing it but she doesnt want it anymore and gave it to me this trip as a gift.

This is generally considered a personal effect and will likely be allowed into Australia duty-free. No? I'm willing to risk it. What they don't know won't hurt them....

 

[justinbrett]

I could not tell you what value jewellery my wife is wearing.

When we were engaged and then married I bought her some expensive jewellery and claimed the GST via TRS but they were sitting in Thailand for 18-30 months.

We have bought other things over the years. Some in Australia, some overseas. Never declared and have no conscience either. I don't believe in the honour system.


I have never heard anyone ever questioned. Maybe it's more common than I think but I guess we can cross that bridge when we see it.

How can you tell if something is new versus 10 years old or 30 years old?

To be honest I've never heard of anyone declaring jewellery purchased overseas and paying duty in Australia. And I have zero guilt about not paying duty on goods purchased overseas. How would I answer (or wife answer) if questioned?

Customs: Where did you get that $2000 necklace?
Wife: My mum bought it on sale 18 months ago and has been wearing it but she doesnt want it anymore and gave it to me this trip as a gift.

This is generally considered a personal effect and will likely be allowed into Australia duty-free. No? I'm willing to risk it. What they don't know won't hurt them....

They’re not looking for 10 year old jewellery. They’re looking for new jewellery, signs that someone either plans to sell it in Australia or has just bought it on an overseas trip.

Your best bet is to declare it and you’ll likely be waived off. If you don’t and they find it, results could be different.

This is way off topic regarding the TRS and gifts.

 

[Viridis]

I’m assuming that you’re an Australian resident

There is no way I am paying duty in Australia.

Why not? It’s the law

P.S. Does anyone seriously keep receipts from 10 years

Yes, I do. Scanned and all stored in the Cloud

But, as @justinbrett said

I’d like to think ABF can tell the difference.

They can. And, as I said, on the occasions where I’ve declared goods, I’ve found the ABF to be extremely reasonable

Again, as stated previously, they have better things to do & bigger fish to fry

My wife & I almost never buy ‘stuff’ abroad. There is virtually nothing that you can’t get in Australia these days; And with the A$ being what it is there is almost nothing worth the effort!!