Singapore Airlines & Scoot Ban On-Board Power Bank Use From April 1, 2025

[Gold Member]

https://loyaltylobby.com/2025/03/12/singapore-airlines-scoot-ban-on-board-power-bank-use-from-april-1-2025/

I noticed Thai and I think Korean introduced these a couple of days ago, and now SQ. How long before every other airline imposes these restrictions?

 

[kpc]

Not an issue as long as the onboard power / USB ports work!

 

[zan5hin]

Also the Chinese airlines have started doing this. Remind me of the overreaction to a single "shoe bomber" back in the day.

If the power bank on the scoot flight that caught on fire was in the overhead, it was likely not charging anything at the time ......

 

[markis10]

If the power bank on the scoot flight that caught on fire was in the overhead, it was likely not charging anything at the time ......

Quite a few recent incidents, all in the lockers in clouding on at Busan and a bark flight from JHB to BKK

 

[AIRwin]

bark flight from JHB to BKK

It was a Batik Air flight to DMK to be exact

 

[elanshin]

My main problem is that each airline is doing something slightly different to the other one and none of which are actually policeable.

The best they can do is tell a pax no if they're spotted charging in SIA groups case.

All of it smells like a liability and insurance shift than real safety procedures. If anything a Lithium based battery is not "more likely" to have a thermal runaway discharging than just sitting still so the ban of use but allowed to carry has little true safety implications.

The problem however is that in no way can we blanket ban lithium batteries as a whole. What if the next thermal runaway is another mobile phone. Galaxy note did that in the past ...

 

[Quickstatus]

If anything a Lithium based battery is not "more likely" to have a thermal runaway discharging than just sitting still so the ban of use but allowed to carry has little true safety implications.

The issue is charging powerbanks rather than batteries asleep or discharging.

Often people will leave on the charger even when it's full. This is where poor quality battery management systems allow overcharging and

A partially charged battery is safer
Tesla specify a state of charge of less than 28% when their car batteries are transported by air.

 

[elanshin]

The issue is charging powerbanks rather than batteries asleep or discharging.

Often people will leave on the charger even when it's full. This is where poor quality battery management systems allow overcharging and

A partially charged battery is safer
Tesla specify a state of charge of less than 28% when their car batteries are transported by air.

Right but wasn't the incident that kicked off the latest round the loss of an aircraft fron air busan with the battery just in the overhead compartment?

Are we going to enter a new phase where because everything is relatively hars to be policed of airlines that let you use /have battery banks and ones that don't and then cause confusion for the average traveller?

I believe Cathay for example has responded saying they won't ban batteries. But supposedly they already disallowed charging the battery prior to this, but not discharging.

 

[Quickstatus]

Right but wasn't the incident that kicked off the latest round the loss of an aircraft fron air busan with the battery just in the overhead compartment?

Sure and I think it's coughulative over several fires.
What was the SoC of the battery that caught fire?. Keep the charge low and don't charge is best practice.

 

[zan5hin]

Coming soon: Star Alliance and Oneworld approved power banks.
Different standards, like HDR10 and Dolby Vision, or for your older people, VHS and Betamax

Time for everyone to upgrade!

 

[elanshin]

Coming soon: Star Alliance and Oneworld approved power banks.
Different standards, like HDR10 and Dolby Vision, or for your older people, VHS and Betamax

Time for everyone to upgrade!

And all from the same factories as the other batteries.

 

[RSD]

The recent changes by airlines are very concerning for someone like me who often travels with the full allowance of 20 spare lithium batteries including 2x special permission 160Wh one. I don't actually take a powerbank, so as long as things don't get any more restrictive I will be OK - so here is hoping!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But why have to wait ~20 days?

It’s not a ban on carrying power banks, just charging them.

If it’s so dangerous, why isn’t the ban immediate?

 

[RSD]

But why have to wait ~20 days?

It’s not a ban on carrying power banks, just charging them.

If it’s so dangerous, why isn’t the ban immediate?

I guess they are balancing risk vs passenger reaction and giving passengers time to adjust.

 

[DC3]

If it’s so dangerous, why isn’t the ban immediate?

. Probably there’s no-one here who can really answer that with any certainty.

 

[Beano]

Lithium batteries only cause problems when they are misused such as bad after market chargers or there is damage to the battery. There are a lot of reports and research on this, mostly those in electric cars and scooters, but also some smaller batteries.

 

[RSD]

Lithium batteries only cause problems when they are misused such as bad after market chargers or there is damage to the battery. There are a lot of reports and research on this, mostly those in electric cars and scooters, but also some smaller batteries.

Or the equipment manufacturer specifies batteries with the wrong type of lithium battery chemistry for the intended purpose - e.g. specify LiCoO2 batteries as they store more energy for a given space or weight - but can't safely handle high power drain loads - so they should have specified LiFePO4 batteries instead to safely handle the high power drain - but unfortunately LiFePO4's can't store as much energy as LiCoO2's can.

 

[RSD]

I recently looked up car fires due to lithium ion batteries and was shocked that electric cars were not over represented. So one wonders! Lithium ion batteries that are limited in capacity - they are chaecked most times at security nowadays should be safe. The crew use fire bags or containment bags with fire mittens to handle a burning battery before it releases all it’s toxic gas which can kill.

One wonders if the MH370 lithium ion batteries located in the hold had any issues? Causing erratic vectoring? Food for thought.

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2025

Interesting I have to read up about it.

Electric cars as you said are not over represented in the statistics, but what the stats don't tell you are a few details that make them more of a PITA than a regular car fire. Things like
- regular car fires are generally pretty easy to extinguish (there are a few exceptions such as those that have an aluminium engine block - but in general a regular car fire isn't a big problem).
- electric car fires on the other hand often require the entire car to be submerged in water for a couple of days until the battery loses all of it's heat / energy / desire to keep reigniting
- electric car fires burn a lot hotter due to the lithium

The reason that electric scooters and the like are catching fire a lot compared to electric cars is that the electric car manufacturers are generally smart enough to fit batteries of the right chemistry into their cars to match the application.

LiCoO2 batteries are generally 3.7 volt, and these batteries have an energy density of greater than 200 watt hours per kilogram, but their maximum continuous discharge is usually well under 10 amps - if they are fitted to something that draws more power then they overheat unless there are protection mechanisms in place to prevent that them being subjected to too high a discharge rate.

LiFePO4 batteries are generally 3.2 volt, and have an energy density of greater than 120 watt hours per kilogram, but will safely continuously discharge at 50+ amps.

I've been researching high-draw cells recently for an application that I have and the pick of them seems to be this one - Lithium-ion 26650 Cells | Nanophosphate Batteries | Lithium Werks - and they are readily available in Australia too.

 

[moa999]

that the electric car manufacturers are generally smart enough to fit batteries of the right chemistry into their cars to match the application

Not just that.. they also (typically) have well thought out battery management systems and active cooling.

Something you might not get in your cheap scooter. Particularly if you then source a non-OEM additional battery or charger.

Many of the car manufacturers use both LiIon (NMC, NMCA, NCM etc) and LFP depending on pricepoint and performance required.

LFP is probably the safest at the moment but has disadvantages of a flat voltage discharge curve (hard to calculate charge) and it's heavier
as you mention but also volumetrically larger per Wh.

 

[RSD]

Not just that.. they also (typically) have well thought out battery management systems and active cooling.

Something you might not get in your cheap scooter. Particularly if you then source a non-OEM additional battery or charger.

Many of the car manufacturers use both LiIon (NMC, NMCA, NCM etc) and LFP depending on pricepoint and performance required.

LFP is probably the safest at the moment but has disadvantages of a flat voltage discharge curve (hard to calculate charge) and it's heavier
as you mention but also volumetrically larger per Wh.

Totally agree - and as you said you won't get a lot of what is really needed with a cheap scooter. I kind of get the feeling that things are going to get significantly worse before they get better...