Disillusionment sets in … is it worth it?

[RichardMEL]

Points expiry without activity has been a thing for a LONG time. IIRC it was 3 years at one point, but it's been 18 months for years now.

This is why having something like a woolies card or BP or some sort of every day thing linked can keep an account active, even if only an occasional user of such services (or just order wine for a gift or something from QF wine yearly).

 

[p--and--t]

Points expiry without activity has been a thing for a LONG time. IIRC it was 3 years at one point, but it's been 18 months for years now.

This is why having something like a woolies card or BP or some sort of every day thing linked can keep an account active, even if only an occasional user of such services (or just order wine for a gift or something from QF wine yearly).

Or download the Qantas Health app to your phone and walk at least 1000 steps per day to get a few points added to your account every day

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Re: Catweazle, AS Mileage Plan may still take your points, and close your account, if there is no activity in 2 years, and nothing in 3.
The fares are set by QF though, and the earn rate for AS as a partner, flying QFd and putting in your AS MP FF number might be small.
Not sure if its worth it.
Not so bad if you live in the US/Alaska, so you can "burn" the points you have earnt, but you haven't said how often you plan to use points for AS awards, and if there is a min earn of points before you can use them, QFF has a min points bal of 5k before it can be used.
Its not like as if QF charges $99 for a MEL - SYD 6 months in advance booked flight, and $94.95 if a person is an AS FF member and puts in their AS FF #.
Mmm, EK lounge has salmon, which is one of their staples, not sure but most likely its imported into Aust, but still, the EK MEL/SYD lounges are miles above their partner QF's lounges.
Been mentioned that QF has had salmon on offer in the past, but the times I flew Au - NZ, never saw salmon on offer to eat in a QF lounge.

 

[JohnK]

Even if you do have status I still think it is the best option. Even as WP I usually can't get my first, second or third choice of flights, or can get one way but not return, and usually can't get points upgrades. Earning QFF points is just not worth bothering about for me. YMMV.

As a Platinum I'm struggling to use my 1+ million points for economy awards.

I know I have limited travel dates but the availability just isn't there closer to travel.

 

[tdimdad]

As a newbie everything is new and I am worried that I simply won’t get it right! I don’t have status to fall back on and see myself at the lowest pecking order. Should I just give up and either let my points wither or buy that toaster from the Qantas store. Everyone on AFF has been so patient responding to my posts and I have learnt a lot. So thank you. But am I a lost cause????

If I may offer an example, my most recent trip had a few things going slightly off the plan. The little issues help to perhaps illustrate some of the fixes en route. Generally, I find that the airline staff onboard and at the airports are helpful and willing to get things sorted when you ask them kindly.

1) I had been upgraded to PE. On my first flight (QF1 SYD-SIN), the requested special meals were not loaded at all. --> Solution: The FA's went to source suitable replacement food items and composed decent meals out of them. On the second flight (QF1 SIN-LHR), my meals were loaded into Y. The FA's found & transferred them to PE and I got them at the meal time, as normal (not plated, though, as would usually happen in PE but I don't mind). --> Solution 2: I always carry muesli/protein bars to tie me over until I get something better to eat.
2) Arrival to LHR was late and I missed my connection (on the same PNR, a different carrier). QF automatically transferred me onto the next available connection - but failed to re-ticket the itinerary. I realised that something's off when testing if I can check in online. --> Solution: I rocked up to the gate before the check-in closing time. It took a few minutes from a gate agent to get the ticket sorted, check me in and issue a boarding pass.
3) Luggage stalled at LHR. When arriving at my final destination, my bluetooth tracker (Tile) kept pinging from London so it was obvious my bag had not followed me. --> Solution: lodge a claim at the arrival services desk and then set yourself to wait patiently. To reduce the impact, you'd do well to pack a couple of days worth of necessities in your carry-on so you don't need to keep turning the same socks around all the time before you've gotten more. Then use the wait time to shop for additional necessities and claim the cost back from the airline and/or your travel insurance. In my case, I finally got the bag on the ninth day but I was in town with adequate clothing stores to cover for it.
4) Similar to point 1, one of my meals was missing on a return flight (this time travelling in Y). --> Solution: The FA's asked me to wait while they see what can be done. Half an hour later, I was served a tray separately prepared in PE/J. While simple, it was sufficient enough as a small meal in itself.

As you can see, all of the problems were sorted by the airline staff in a satisfactory way. The only thing that kept bugging me was the long delay in getting my bag but most of the delay was (probably) caused by the ground handling staff's strike at LHR right after my bag had initially been located (but not yet transferred out of LHR).

Many of the issues you'll face are either systemic or outside of airlines' control (e.g. weather). In this regard, you and staff are on the same side with a common goal of getting things back on track and most staff can be very helpful. You'll be usually looked after OK so once you've done perhaps some more simple trips, you can confidently venture out to more complex trips and come back happy with new memories & stories.

 

[JohnK]

Domestic seems to be ok... I was referring to the lack of international awards.

Who would have thought?

Domestic can be great value. I've redeemed 8,000 QFF points + ~$40 for a $279 airfare.

 

[Human]

Who would have thought?

Domestic can be great value. I've redeemed 8,000 QFF points + ~$40 for a $279 airfare.

Domestic and South Pacific (NZ, New Caledonia etc) redemptions are more-or-less the only thing that Qantas points are good for at the moment.

 

[The Flying Schwartz]

Points expiry without activity has been a thing for a LONG time. IIRC it was 3 years at one point, but it's been 18 months for years now

And in fairness to the airlines, it’s part of the deal with the devil we make, to prefer their company and use their services frequently. Someone here probably knows for sure but I’m guessing that points outstanding turn up somewhere as a liability on the company books? At least with VA and QFF we have plenty of set and forget options to keep the points active, unlike some other airlines with hard expiry

Post automatically merged: Dec 6, 2022

Domestic and South Pacific (NZ, New Caledonia etc) redemptions are more-or-less the only thing that Qantas points are good for at the moment.

I was just looking for availability for Noumea this morning, booking page had a glitch and told me QF doesn’t fly there

 

[VeniVidiVici]

Good advice @AustraliaPoochie , thanks.


I agree on the chances of upgrades. Snow balls chance really for a Bronze.

I'm a lifetime Gold and only get them on rare occasions..
In fact they are so rare, rather than chance a Qantas upgrade on my next flight to Europe I just paid Business.......on Emirates.

Still if you don't apply, you'll never know. They may get lucky on the day. Or not

I am currently a silver but up until now I've always been bronze and in the last few years we've used points to fly return to South Africa, first class on EK to NZ, numerous interstate trips and more domestic upgrades than I can remember. In April next year we'll be flying to Europe in Y and return in J.

It is frustrating but with some flexibility, forward planning and advice from AFFers there are trips to be had.

 

[p--and--t]

Domestic and South Pacific (NZ, New Caledonia etc) redemptions are more-or-less the only thing that Qantas points are good for at the moment.

Sorry, totally disagree. I visited 4 countries that I wanted to in Middle East, Africa and Asia Oct/Nov this year in business class using QF points. Its all in the searching and being flexible on transit points and dates and not looking always at shortest possible route and booking last minute (I'm Bronze)

 

[mviy]

Or download the Qantas Health app to your phone and walk at least 1000 steps per day to get a few points added to your account every day

You don‘t even have to walk. You can setup a sleep challenge and get 0.5 points each day you complete the sleep challenge.

Edit: meant to say sleep challenge

 

[justinbrett]

I've used half a million QF points on flights this year. More than I ever have in my whole time with QF - and the vast majority on international J award, or international J upgrades. This includes UK & USA.

To be fair, a large chunk was booked early 2022 (for travel later in 2022) when a lot of the world were still scared of covid. By the time I flew those award flights the cash fares were through the roof.

My secret was that I had total flexibility in when I could travel, and planned my trips accordingly.

None of my international J seats were platinum release. I've only used that for domestic connections, and recently for a Y fare to HNL next year.

 

[Human]

I've used half a million QF points on flights this year. More than I ever have in my whole time with QF - and the vast majority on international J award, or international J upgrades. This includes UK & USA.

To be fair, a large chunk was booked early 2022 (for travel later in 2022) when a lot of the world were still scared of covid. By the time I flew those award flights the cash fares were through the roof.

My secret was that I had total flexibility in when I could travel, and planned my trips accordingly.

None of my international J seats were platinum release. I've only used that for domestic connections, and recently for a Y fare to HNL next year.

Yes. Looking back, the last few months of 2021 and the first couple of months of 2022 were a great time to book: Qatar wasn't withholding seats from Qantas FF, Emirates hadn't increased their carrier charges, and there was plenty of availability for those willing to be flexible and those willing to lock in flights even though COVID was still at its peak at the time.

I even found business class availability for two, during Australian school holidays, on QF10 -- and I'm Qantas FF Bronze! Though in the end I cancelled and flew Qatar instead ... absolutely no regrets there. The point being: there was so much availability that we even had choices and options!

Conversely, there were plenty of people who adopted a "wait and see" attitude, who waited too long, and who now regret it.

 

[tdimdad]

As has been mentioned, unless you are at least QFF SG, its a lost cause, as the return of what you will give QFF, they consider what we offer them a pittance, as a lower status member.

I'd love to hear some experienced members to speculate (or confirm or debunk) on this. I have a gut feel - but can't pinpoint it - that when I have a few forward bookings on my account, the treatment becomes every so slightly more preferential. E.g. rebooking to better alternative flight in case of an IRROPS (better = closer to the original departure time, or similar). At times of no forward bookings, the treatment is "more mainstream".

Would this possibly influence the actual or (potential) predicted life-time customer value and hence some kind of a score on when & how issues are resolved?

 

[encryptededdy]

Personally, I've had quite a good run in 2022 booking and flying premium seats on Qantas Points. I've probably spent nearly 500k points this year on various flights, including;

• QF J A330 SYD-PER return (April)
• QF J SYD-SIN return (Feb)
• MH J SYD-xKUL-SIN return (June)
• QF J MEL-HBA (Sept)
• QF J SYD-HND return (Nov)
• QF Y -> J Upgrade SYD-CNS (Feb, as a Bronze)
• QF Y -> J Upgrade BNE-SYD (April, as a Silver)
• QF J SYD-xMEL-LAX (Nov)
• QF F LAX-SYD (Dec, Platinum Release)
• AA Y LAX-YVR return (Nov, cash prices were very high, thanksgiving)

and forward bookings I have

• QF J HND-SYD (Mar)
• JL J SYD-HND (Feb)
• CI J SYD-TPE return (May)

Of all of these, only one was a Platinum release and only 3 QF flights were booked while I was a Gold/Platinum, which may have allowed me to access extra inventory.

My secret was that I had total flexibility in when I could travel, and planned my trips accordingly.

This is probably why I've been so successful too though. I'm happy to bring up the award calendar (accessed with multi-city search), spot a J seat, then begin planning a brand new trip around that. In the first half of the year, I was (ab)using Fly Flexible to make speculative bookings based on when I thought Singapore / Japan / Western Australia would open up. I think all of my flights were booked less than 6 months in advance.

If you're not flexibility in timing and/or destination, then you should be flexible in routing. For instance, it's pretty easy to get QF J flights to CGK or MNL, or MH J flights to KUL. Once you're there, you can then usually find much more J space to where-ever you want to go. For instance, from MNL you can usually find JAL J fares to Japan if you're looking to go there, or Emirates to the rest of the world. You may have to force these routings using the multi-city tool.

In general you need at least one, but preferably two of (timing flexibility, destination flexibility, routing flexibility).

I will admit though that I think about 1/3 of my above flights have required intervention on my side due to schedule changes, which has become a lot easier after achieving Platinum status, since the call center has been a lot more helpful.

I think there's no need to be too gloomy. Well, if you have a million points and you want to spend them quickly then I can see that being an issue, but if you have 100~400k points and you just want to book a single Business Class holiday, I think it's still pretty doable. Of course, you're not going to be able to get to Japan in the next few months on points (have you seen the cash prices on those tickets?), but if you have a reasonably sized list of destinations and dates to travel, you should be able to find something. Also, I'm still reasonably confident that the situation will get better in the next year as the big wave of people trying to book travel from the border reopening subsides.

With this said, it's definitely true it's slightly easier to get flights out of Australia on SQ Krisflyer than Qantas. I don't even think this is a case of SQ releasing more award space than Qantas though, it's simply the much lower number of people in Australia with access to and redeeming KF points compared on QFF points. I bet if there were as many KF credit cards, sign up bonuses, and accounts in Australia as there are QFF, then the availability would be the same or worse. Of course, this fact doesn't help you as a Qantas customer, but I'm inclined to believe Qantas isn't even being thaaat stingy with their award space compared to other carriers.

On the topic of the value of Qantas points vs. e.g. AS miles or even Krisflyer, I completely agree in terms of the raw value per point. However from an Australian perspective I still continue to collect QFF points because they're so much easier to collect than other miles. I can easily get 100k+ QFF points from a card sign up, whereas that's not really possible with Krisflyer (except for the current Citi card, but that's a rare deal). Therefore, the amount of flights I can redeem from one Credit Card churn is more or less the same between Qantas and Krisflyer, even if the absolute number of points required is higher.

In my opinion the biggest issue with booking complex QFF itineraries is the risk of reticketing failure on flight changes, and the inability to get a good resolution through the contact centre without high status.

 

[p--and--t]

Personally, I've had quite a good run in 2022 booking and flying premium seats on Qantas Points. I've probably spent nearly 500k points this year on various flights, including;

• QF J A330 SYD-PER return (April)
• QF J SYD-SIN return (Feb)
• MH J SYD-xKUL-SIN return (June)
• QF J MEL-HBA (Sept)
• QF J SYD-HND return (Nov)
• QF Y -> J Upgrade SYD-CNS (Feb, as a Bronze)
• QF Y -> J Upgrade BNE-SYD (April, as a Silver)
• QF J SYD-xMEL-LAX (Nov)
• QF F LAX-SYD (Dec, Platinum Release)
• AA Y LAX-YVR return (Nov, cash prices were very high, thanksgiving)

and forward bookings I have

• QF J HND-SYD (Mar)
• JL J SYD-HND (Feb)
• CI J SYD-TPE return (May)

Of all of these, only one was a Platinum release and only 3 QF flights were booked while I was a Gold/Platinum, which may have allowed me to access extra inventory.

This is probably why I've been so successful too though. I'm happy to bring up the award calendar (accessed with multi-city search), spot a J seat, then begin planning a brand new trip around that. In the first half of the year, I was (ab)using Fly Flexible to make speculative bookings based on when I thought Singapore / Japan / Western Australia would open up. I think all of my flights were booked less than 6 months in advance.

With that said, I think about 1/3 of these flights have required intervention on my side due to schedule changes, which has admittedly become a lot easier after achieving Platinum status, since the call center has been a lot more helpful.

I think there's no need to be too gloomy. Well, if you have a million points and you want to spend them quickly then I can see that being an issue, but if you have 100~400k points and you just want to book a single Business Class holiday, I think it's still pretty doable. Of course, you're not going to be able to get to Japan in the next few months on points (have you seen the cash prices on those tickets?), but if you have a reasonably sized list of destinations and dates to travel, you should be able to find something.

With this said, it's definitely true it's slightly easier to get flights out of Australia on SQ Krisflyer than Qantas. I don't even think this is a case of SQ releasing more award space than Qantas though, it's simply the much lower number of people in Australia with access to and redeeming KF points compared on QFF points. I bet if there were as many KF credit cards, sign up bonuses, and accounts in Australia as there are QFF, then the availability would be the same or worse. Of course, this fact doesn't help you as a Qantas customer, but I'm inclined to believe Qantas isn't even being thaaat stingy with their award space compared to other carriers.

On the topic of the value of Qantas points vs. e.g. AS miles or even Krisflyer, I completely agree in terms of the raw value per point. However from an Australian perspective I still continue to collect QFF points because they're so much easier to collect than other miles. I can easily get 100k+ QFF points from a card sign up, whereas that's not really possible with Krisflyer (except for the current Citi card, but that's a rare deal). Therefore, the amount of flights I can redeem from one Credit Card churn is more or less the same between Qantas and Krisflyer, even if the absolute number of points required is higher.

Well Said!!!!!!

 

[Mr H]

I had a pretty decent OWA in August to October - five stops in Delhi, London, Tehran, Tunis and Amman. Thirteen flights, all in J. I have a booking next year Lahore to Melbourne in J (outbound using other airlines) that I am hoping to expand into a OWA with return flights to Saudi Arabia in early 2024. I'd say it's worth it.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I'd love to hear some experienced members to speculate (or confirm or debunk) on this. I have a gut feel - but can't pinpoint it - that when I have a few forward bookings on my account, the treatment becomes every so slightly more preferential. E.g. rebooking to better alternative flight in case of an IRROPS (better = closer to the original departure time, or similar). At times of no forward bookings, the treatment is "more mainstream".

Would this possibly influence the actual or (potential) predicted life-time customer value and hence some kind of a score on when & how issues are resolved?

The most advantages, is once a person gets to QFF WP/P1, and can get 95% the HBA call centre.
Other wise, with the other call centers, its how you can convey your needs, and if they will be met.
Overseas, the staff are contractors on behalf of QF, where as the HBA ones are QF staff.
Personally, I feel that QF should bring their call centres back to Aust ops.
(OffT), I am sure if those baggage handlers in the video were QF employees, they would not treat customers luggage like they did.
And its not like as if they didn't know they were being videod doing the mistreatment.
And AJ says he is disgusted by what he saw!
Aren't we all, shocking, really.(OnT).

 

[mviy]

Maybe if the politicians weren't Chairman's Lounge and had to use the overseas call centres they would be more inclined to do something with regulation to force the airline to address the call centre problems.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

You can call me racist, I am (non China/not Indian) Asian, and my English is passable, but I have an Indian colleague, cleaner, who has been in Aust for 10 years, and her English, she has done TAFE English skills too, with my simplest English to her, is "I don't understand"/or I can't understand.
We here in Aust, have our way of speaking English, with slangs, and accents, etc, and I have gotten quite used to the way that retail staff have to respond when we ask for things, or when we request something, or they need something from us, ie, photo id to check into a hotel.
But oversea call centers, we have to contend on, (a)if the line is good or not, (b)what their (other side's) English is like, (c)if the call will drop off or not, (d)how knowledgeable they are, (e)what they can do without having to contact their QF/QFF liaison, for whom we can't contact directly, (f)what they do when their KPI have been met for the day/week, do they keep trying their best, or do they slow down.
Not to mention calls not being answered by the overseas call center.