Qantas Call Centre Long Wait Times

My understanding (from unofficial sources) is that there is a pool of priority phone numbers that airport staff give to passengers which rotates every few weeks.

I will attempt to publish the currently active number(s) in this post:

1300 304 318
1300 659 161
1300 025 396
1300 659 116

1300 024 715
1300 025 390
1300 659 115
1300 659 134
1300 659 502

 

[sudoer]

because it then gets sent to another priority queue for more manual intervention by another onshore (qantas) team.

So there is a directive/policy that when a customer is entitled to a refund and requests one, the agent should place the request in a queue which Qantas management knows will take an unreasonable length of time to process?

Amadeus which is used by QF and a lot of other airlines isn't simple, it's quite complex. Same as Sabre.

Many other full-service airlines use Amadeus or Sabre but have been able to consistently process refunds within days through the pandemic - so these systems cannot be the sole reason for the delay. It's also clear that Qantas is capable of processing refunds within days when they want to (i.e. moving them to the 'priority queue') which lends further weight to the argument that Amadeus is not the problem.

All I'm saying is, it's not a conspiracy. That's just complete nonsense.

Can you empathise with Qantas customers to understand why it appears that way though?

At the start of the pandemic, when no one could have foreseen the huge influx of refunds needing to suddenly be processed, it could be considered reasonable for airlines to take months to process refunds. But for this to still be the case two years in, someone at Qantas has made a conscious decision to maintain this service level and not try to address the issue.

The only logical conclusion is that Qantas management must still think it is reasonable to take 2+ months to refund money a customer is entitled to, or 3+ hours to answer the phone for requests that cannot be made through any other channel, otherwise they would have addressed this problem by now? (or made incremental improvements at the very least)

 

[djkelly69]

None of the numbers in the OP seem to working today, all ask for your FF number straight away.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'm in the same boat. I've been following up since mid Dec because I lodged my refund request on 15 Oct. The delay for my refund is BPay and was told that once Qantas process the credit, it can take up to 4 weeks for BPay to refund. In addition, Qantas only submit BPay refunds once a week on a Wednesday. OMG, I was only trying to save on card fees when I paid for my flight and the PoLi pay method doesn't use my bank.

So....long story short, try the priority numbers listed, I had a less than 10 min wait time and my queries were answered straight away. I rang in the morning. One staff member did get shirty with me as he asked who gave me the number and I said, my refund is a priority it shouldn't matter where I got the number. I've lodged 2 x complaints and waited the 8 weeks timefame and still no update and response from Qantas. They are now my last resort airline. Horrible experience.

Financially, QF is in a difficult position becoming more serious by the day so one hopes you receive your refund.

Companies in some other sectors wouldn't get away with the sort of stonewalling airlines (not just QF) excel at when it comes to refunds. Perhaps you need to take it to a state civil and administrative tribunal, although those of which I'm aware have increased filing fees, presumably as a disincentive for frivolous complaints.

 

[Daver6]

At the start of the pandemic, when no one could have foreseen the huge influx of refunds needing to suddenly be processed, it could be considered reasonable for airlines to take months to process refunds. But for this to still be the case two years in, someone at Qantas has made a conscious decision to maintain this service level and not try to address the issue.

The only logical conclusion is that Qantas management must still think it is reasonable to take 2+ months to refund money a customer is entitled to, or 3+ hours to answer the phone for requests that cannot be made through any other channel, otherwise they would have addressed this problem by now? (or made incremental improvements at the very least)

I'd actually go further than this. When the pandemic hit QF would have had a massive amount for forward bookings that needed to be cancelled. Understandable that this is something they hadn't planned for. Fast forward to the last 12 months. Forward bookings would be minimal compared to prior to the pandemic. No/minimal international flights massively reduced domestic network and people just not booking. How can refunds now be still taking 8-12 weeks when there would be a minute amount compared to the start of the pandemic?

Secondly, why is this still a manual process? Every other business has adjusted to the new reality. Why haven't QF implemented an automated refund system?

If anyone thinks there isn't a directive from QF leadership to hang on to customer's money as long as possible and use them as unsecured creditors, you're insane. As Occam's razor suggest, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. QF management are smart. They know how to make things more efficient to save a dollar. If they wanted to solve this problem it would have been solved by now. So no, it's not a conspiracy, but it is a conscious business decision QF leadership have taken.

 

[TheInsider]

Many other full-service airlines use Amadeus or Sabre but have been able to consistently process refunds within days through the pandemic - so these systems cannot be the sole reason for the delay. It's also clear that Qantas is capable of processing refunds within days when they want to (i.e. moving them to the 'priority queue') which lends further weight to the argument that Amadeus is not the problem.

This was said in relation to a different question - I was not talking about refunds. I was talking about contact centres and the comparison to the MNL JQ one.

Post automatically merged: Feb 13, 2022

Secondly, why is this still a manual process? Every other business has adjusted to the new reality. Why haven't QF implemented an automated refund system?

Because QF don't give a cough about technology - they don't want to pay for anything.

 

[Daver6]

Because QF don't give a cough about technology - they don't want to pay for anything.

I disagree. They're more than happy to pay for tech that will improve efficiencies to reduce costs.

 

[TheInsider]

So there is a directive/policy that when a customer is entitled to a refund and requests one, the agent should place the request in a queue which Qantas management knows will take an unreasonable length of time to process?

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but QF management doesn't give a cough, if they did, it would be fixed. If ANY of their senior executive team cared, they would've provided the funding to fix these issues, they haven't. They spend on JQ and freight. Anything else QF is just nothing to them.
They are a bunch of nepotistic fluffers, you can't even get a straight answer from these people.

Post automatically merged: Feb 13, 2022

I disagree. They're more than happy to pay for tech that will improve efficiencies to reduce costs.

I disagree with that, they haven't changed one thing in the tech (after saying they would) since they have removed domestic sales desks. This is both in ticketing and their check-in system. QF is now one of the lowest-ranked airlines in uptake of Amadeus tech and ancillary products in their check-in systems compared to other airlines that use it.

The domestic kiosks that are being used have now been around for 10 years without any hardware updates!

Nearly all of their PC's still run on Windows 7 with Internet Explorer 9.

For example, they would fix up a broken office chair and pay a repair person 50 times over, before they just actually replaced the product for a brand new one (not a real example). It's just inept management and short-term cost savings.

 

[Daver6]

I disagree with that, they haven't changed one thing in the tech (after saying they would) since they have removed domestic sales desks. This is both in ticketing and their check-in system. QF is now one of the lowest-ranked airlines in uptake of Amadeus tech and ancillary products in their check-in systems compared to other airlines that use it.

The domestic kiosks that are being used have now been around for 10 years without any hardware updates!

Nearly all of their PC's still run on Windows 7 with Internet Explorer 9.

For example, they would fix up a broken office chair and pay a repair person 50 times over, before they just actually replaced the product for a brand new one (not a real example). It's just inept management and short-term cost savings.

What about the spending on tech for more efficient flight paths etc? That doesn't count as spending on tech?

They really run on Windows 7? Wow. They are so going to be owned by hackers. Windows 7 went EOL years ago!

 

[TheInsider]

What about the spending on tech for more efficient flight paths etc? That doesn't count as spending on tech?

They really run on Windows 7? Wow. They are so going to be owned by hackers. Windows 7 went EOL years ago!

Sorry I'm being selective on my tech spend. Airports don't see a cent.

 

[Lynda2475]

I dont have a problem with online check-in as long as I can use the terminal to print bag tags, as I do not trust the Q tags

 

[sudoer]

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but QF management doesn't give a cough, if they did, it would be fixed. If ANY of their senior executive team cared, they would've provided the funding to fix these issues, they haven't.

Okay, so we've established that senior execs are aware of the refund delays and overall poor service levels, and they are intentionally making no effort to improve the situation. It doesn't matter what their motivations are for not addressing the problem - be it to save on call centre/back office labour, avoid spending on tech to automate tasks or gain efficiencies, stem cash outflows from refunds, or just outright "not giving a cough".

If senior management have recognised the problem exists, discussed it, and agreed to maintain the directive that Qantas will continue holding money which customers are entitled to for an unreasonably long time, this is arguably the definition of a conspiracy:

Essential Meaning of conspiracy
1: a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
2: the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal

Unreasonably holding on to money which someone is entitled to is not only harmful to them, but it may also be illegal under consumer law. Here's what the ACCC published with regards to the timing of refunds from travel providers.. (link)

Timing of refunds
Where a consumer is entitled to a refund, the refund must be paid within a reasonable time. The ACCC and ACL Regulators appreciate that, in the circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic, it may take longer than usual for businesses to be able to process the volume of cancellations and refunds. Where a business has received funds from a supplier or third party that are due to be returned to a consumer, the business must remit those funds to the customer as soon as possible in the circumstances. Businesses should communicate regularly with consumers about the timing of any refunds.

The ACCC does mention leniency for travel businesses needing additional time to deal with the volume of cancellations, but this was published 1.5 years ago when there was a far greater volume of cancellations and businesses were still grappling with the move to working remotely. As @Daver6 made the case for, the reduction in future bookings and overall passenger numbers must mean far fewer refunds in the queue, which in turn makes a 2-3 month turnaround unreasonable.

The ACCC did an excellent job of holding Qantas to account in June 2020 for not adequately informing customers of their refund rights, and I hope that they get involved again if Qantas keeps up this unreasonable refund processing time. I wonder whether mentioning consumer law to an agent quoting a 2-3 month turnaround will result in the 'priority queue' treatment?

 

[TheInsider]

Okay, so we've established that senior execs are aware of the refund delays and overall poor service levels, and they are intentionally making no effort to improve the situation. It doesn't matter what their motivations are for not addressing the problem - be it to save on call centre/back office labour, avoid spending on tech to automate tasks or gain efficiencies, stem cash outflows from refunds, or just outright "not giving a cough".

If senior management have recognised the problem exists, discussed it, and agreed to maintain the directive that Qantas will continue holding money which customers are entitled to for an unreasonably long time, this is arguably the definition of a conspiracy:



Unreasonably holding on to money which someone is entitled to is not only harmful to them, but it may also be illegal under consumer law. Here's what the ACCC published with regards to the timing of refunds from travel providers.. (link)



The ACCC does mention leniency for travel businesses needing additional time to deal with the volume of cancellations, but this was published 1.5 years ago when there was a far greater volume of cancellations and businesses were still grappling with the move to working remotely. As @Daver6 made the case for, the reduction in future bookings and overall passenger numbers must mean far fewer refunds in the queue, which in turn makes a 2-3 month turnaround unreasonable.

The ACCC did an excellent job of holding Qantas to account in June 2020 for not adequately informing customers of their refund rights, and I hope that they get involved again if Qantas keeps up this unreasonable refund processing time. I wonder whether mentioning consumer law to an agent quoting a 2-3 month turnaround will result in the 'priority queue' treatment?

Why is it I get the feeling that you're arguing with me or just picking on things that I'm saying?
I'm just pointing out information that I have. I don't really care about the legalities of things or what terminology that gets used.
Quoting ACCC or consumer law to call centre agents will get you no where. They will refer you to their legal team and then to write to customer 'care'.
If you don't want to listen to what I have to say then don't.

 

[MARTINE]

Only way they get the message is boycott
- not going to happen. I refuse to fly them unless in extremis

 

[sudoer]

Why is it I get the feeling that you're arguing with me or just picking on things that I'm saying?
I'm just pointing out information that I have. I don't really care about the legalities of things or what terminology that gets used.

I am simply responding to your comments in posts #911 and #915, where you stated twice that the refund delays are not a conspiracy and it's "complete nonsense" to suggest otherwise. The entire point of a discussion forum is to share differing opinions and views, even if some think they are complete nonsense.

I'm not arguing with you or picking on you specifically, I'm just arguing the case that the continued refund delays this far into the pandemic are unreasonable, and if management are complicit in that it's really not that far off a conspiracy.

If you want to do something about QF not giving you refunds, then do something about it.

Yep, I will be contacting the ACCC the next time I'm quoted 8-12 weeks.

 

[RichardMEL]

Only way they get the message is boycott
- not going to happen. I refuse to fly them unless in extremis

yeah we know. you have said this a lot. so why comment on forums of an airline you despise?

the reality is that QF are arrogant enough to understand that in their home market they have a very dominant market share and are milking that. VA2.0 is weak and has lost share. Rex is a mosqito and Bonza? well who the heck knows, but I doubt they are too worried.

The point being that QF have set up a situation with a massive "loyalty" advantage through links like BP, woolies not to mention the huge market share of flying. On some routes they have no competition. On others they have very little.

The problem with a boycott idea in an our environment is that it probably can't get enough traction to be more than a blip to QF. They have many corporate accounts sewn up (and VA basically ceeded the corporates to QF saying they would not chase the business flyers) so you have big corporate accounts paying $$$, you have wank like the CL tying in (in theory) relevant people in power to suck them into the QF ecosystem and get them wedded to the perks and all that. Again VA seems incapable or uninterested under Bain to seriously chase this sector (previous VA was fairly aggressive to chase corporate customers from QF... case in point the AFL).

So if you have a 60+% dominant market position there is a degree of arrogance that flows through, and as I've noted before with regard to the call centre - majority of punters are forced to phone QF once QF has their money (via cash fares or points) so the incentive to help these people seriously is less. I bet there are single digit percentages of phone callers making new bookings.

To be clear in no way am I defending the diabolical situation for customers that has been created. I think it is pathetic honestly. I am just trying to point out why the notion of a mass boycott simply won't happen, and those who feel strongly enough to do it represent (I believe) a pretty small percentage of QF yield.

 

[PineappleSkip]

you have wank like the CL

IIRC I'm sure it was the WP that are the wank.

BTW I think the QF IT excuse is plausible. Back in the day I recall numerous instances where I couldn't complete a booking because the website invented reasons not to take my money. For a business to tolerate stuff like that is madness rather than arrogance. if it's arrogance it's the sort that gets you in the dustbin of insolvency

cheers skip

 

[MARTINE]

#938
You are right
.. its hopeless
.. and everyone can contribute respectfully.

 

[djkelly69]

None of the numbers in the OP seem to working today, all ask for your FF number straight away.

I should clarify that my experience today was that the 115 number does seem to get through quite quickly after entering your FF details, but was always answered by the South African team. Could be because it was Sunday.

 

[Spacetravel]

I have had to call twice recently and here are my experiences:
Called 13 13 13 around 1PM on Friday and got through in under 15 minutes with call back offered. Got the new Fiji centre and they were good! MUCH nicer than anyone I've ever spoken to from Cape Town and while there was an issue where they thought Business Class was Z not U. After putting me in PE and the agent realising that "Z" has ticketed as PE they realised their mistake and put me in U for Business Class. The agent actually said "you were right" as I told them before they did it to put me in U. Beyond that bit of an issue, the person I spoke to was happy to help and tried their best. I actually waited hoping to get the survey to rate well but didn't get put through.

Right now I called 13 13 13 2:10am. Wait time was advised "less than 15 minutes" however after 1 hour 15 minutes I have given up.

I feel like I must just "love" calling QF, had to call so many times recently as award availability/ plans change. My last call was suppose to be the last one but I couldn't resist calling to change an AA segment of my OWA from narrow body first to wide body "flagship business" that EF alerted me to this evening.

 

[RAM]

Oh come now everybody knows the MSN is in the pocket of "Big Airline" !!!!

All jokes aside this is the kind of thing that would front up on ACA and the like from time to time and more or less be ignored. It is the kind of thing a shock jock would probably have a red hot go at, but the problem probably would be that a QF spokesperson would be trotted out to say all the usual and nothing much would happen.

Can confirm it is not only the MSM but also all aviation analysts that cover Q.

When Q grounded its fleet due to wanting to change international pilot's conditions - I uncovered some very creative accounting used to shift costs from JetStar to Q as well as Q seemingly revaluing purchased aircraft from amount paid to list price - sure made 'Profits' look good for a while.

Approached the top 4 analysts/houses - none would touch it. Their honest responses were:

• Q will freeze us out of all information flow
• Its too small a market to put the biggest potential client in Aust/NZ offside
• They're protected

Meanwhile the Chairman's Club sees 13 of the top execs at ACCC as 'members' along with all State & Federal Politicians of any note.

Perhaps the only way to play it is to contact VA's new owners & suggest they can use it as a competive advantage in some of their marketing....