Australian state border restrictions

[Flashback]

What about we don’t want to spend Christmas without half the family stuck interstate

.... or overseas.

 

[PineappleSkip]

My irony is I have an urgent work need to travel OS very soon, I have an exemption to leave Aus, I have a visa, I have a "fully vaxxed" certificate, I have a confirmed but not paid ticket back to Sydney, but the impossible is the iron curtain between NSW and Qld. Seriously considering coming back to NSW and being a refugee for a while! Interstate is harder than overseas for me.

Cheers skip

 

[nutwood]

My irony is I have an urgent work need to travel OS very soon, I have an exemption to leave Aus, I have a visa, I have a confirmed but not paid ticket back to Sydney, but the impossible is the iron curtain between NSW and Qld. Seriously considering coming back to NSW and being a refugee for a while! Interstate is harder than overseas for me.

Cheers skip

What a ridiculous situation to be in. I'm thinking the airlines are going to have to step up to the line if they want people flying with them. International into DRW would help but they could also try and negotiate internal "shuttle" links for OS arrivals.
Once international borders are open, the legal position of internal closures is going to become very dubious. They are obviously enforceable at domestic airports but what's the position with the ports? If an international cruise ship arrives in Queensland, can they turn it away? If that cruise ship has passengers from NSW, or who have been in NSW, can they screen them out?
If not, there seems to me that there's a business opportunity running cruises out of Sydney. Head out onto the high seas, then return to Australian waters and drop passengers off at a convenient port outside the local Covid no-go zones.

 

[PineappleSkip]

There might be a business opportunity for cruises if they could get an exemption to enter Australian waters. Good luck with that!

Cheers skip

 

[nutwood]

There might be a business opportunity for cruises if they could get an exemption to enter Australian waters. Good luck with that!

Cheers skip

Entry into Australian waters is a Federal matter. They've indicated they are willing to lift restrictions. I've no idea whether a State can prevent an international ship docking. My gut feeling is that SOE powers allow them to do pretty much anything but if the Federal Government has opened international borders, it'd be an interesting discussion!

 

[MARTINE]

Entry into Australian waters is a Federal matter. They've indicated they are willing to lift restrictions. I've no idea whether a State can prevent an international ship docking. My gut feeling is that SOE powers allow them to do pretty much anything but if the Federal Government has opened international borders, it'd be an interesting discussion!

Ruby Princess??
didn't this expose the jurisdictional gap with each blaming other and neither clear — not sure if still unresolved

 

[Must...Fly!]

International maritime laws would presumably prevent states from refusing resupply but disembarkation another matter?

 

[nutwood]

Ruby Princess??
didn't this expose the jurisdictional gap with each blaming other and neither clear — not sure if still unresolved

I don't think that was legal, just everyday incompetence!

 

[PineappleSkip]

I think it's like air passengers, where the Federal Government makes the decision about each individual passenger entering Australia, and the states hae no say in that, but it's done under an agreement where the States negotiate how many can come in under the caps. The exemptions are given by ABF to individual ships and once the ship is exempted the crew are permitted to enter. Then the states have rules about what the crew can do once they have entered. I don't think there is any recognition of passengers in all this, but having ploughed through Queensland's latest border direction (No 47A) I'm over reading rules.

Presumably if the Feds said we'll let cruise ships in AP would say we need more ambulances or wharves or something

 

[jrfsp]

Federal gov can grant access to Australian Waters but any docking requires approval by the relevant Port Authority, in many cases overseen by the state governments.

 

[nutwood]

Federal gov can grant access to Australian Waters but any docking requires approval by the relevant Port Authority, in many cases overseen by the state governments.

That's how I would interpret it. The question is if the Federals have relaxed restrictions on entry from OS can the individual States legitimately refuse to allow passengers to land without leaving themselves wide open to legal challenge and potential compensation?

 

[jrfsp]

That's how I would interpret it. The question is if the Federals have relaxed restrictions on entry from OS can the individual States legitimately refuse to allow passengers to land without leaving themselves wide open to legal challenge and potential compensation?

Most definitely, happens all the time. Only required to provide assistance in the event of an emergency. Most cruise ships book berthing 12-24 months in advance.

 

[Port Power]

That's how I would interpret it. The question is if the Federals have relaxed restrictions on entry from OS can the individual States legitimately refuse to allow passengers to land without leaving themselves wide open to legal challenge and potential compensation?

Passengers can land, but then would have to enter 14 days quarantine. One reason the cruise lines haven’t returned even small ships is that, basically, they cannot go from state to state.

 

[nutwood]

Most definitely, happens all the time. Only required to provide assistance in the event of an emergency. Most cruise ships book berthing 12-24 months in advance.

I was thinking that it would be different if the passengers were residents in the State in which they were attempting to disembark but upon contemplation I see the flaw in my argument. The Australian constitution is an elderly document but at the time it was drawn up, the only way contagion could arrive was by ship so the quarantine provisions against Covid by water are likely to be bullet proof.
Bugger! No point proceeding with that ship lease offer I was drawing up.

 

[Quickstatus]

If I am flying into Melbourne from Greater Sydney in the morning and flying out in the evening back to Sydney

Sounds like a 2021 status run challenge

 

[mviy]

Sounds like a 2021 status run challenge

70 of those trips on standard credits red e-deals and you could get WP from not having it or 60 to retain assuming the border between VIC and NSW is open.

I'd like to be able to do MEL-BNE-CNS return in J, but I think it will be a while before that run is an option again.

 

[Ric]

Sounds like a 2021 status run challenge

I wish but I have legal matters to attend to at Melbourne and that they were willing to give me an appointment but I have to adhere to states' regulations ..... going into Victoria and coming back into NSW.
And I still can't find any answers whether I can do that especially seeing that Greater Sydney is still considered as an extreme risk zone. But the appointment being in mid November, I hope restrictions will be lifted by then.

 

[nutwood]

I wish but I have legal matters to attend to at Melbourne and that they were willing to give me an appointment but I have to adhere to states' regulations ..... going into Victoria and coming back into NSW.
And I still can't find any answers whether I can do that especially seeing that Greater Sydney is still considered as an extreme risk zone. But the appointment being in mid November, I hope restrictions will be lifted by then.

The short answer to your question is no, you won't be able to do that.
My last trip through Melbourne airport (transiting from Adl - Lst), they got very excited because I, and everyone else transiting, had filled out transit passes. Seemed the logical thing to do and it's what they've wanted previously. We were told that transit passes were only for people from High Risk areas and meant we'd be going into quarantine. Didn't make a lot of sense as it's tricky to both quarantine and 24 hour transit at the same time but that's what they said and that's what you'll encounter as you step off your Sydney flight. You'll be quizzed as to where you are going and what you are doing. Coming from an Extreme Risk destination will guarantee your reception.
If you were desperate, you could probably say you're about to drive to Wagga and won't be remaining in the State. That would tick the boxes for the transit pass and would probably work but could also go very wrong. It's highly unlikely anyone would bother you on the way back and you could claim you'd changed your mind about Wagga and were returning home. Dodgy, but technically still within the conditions of the pass. The appointment in Melbourne is where you'd be in clear breach of the conditions. Get busted there and it'd be game over. Personally, I have too much respect for Murphy's law to recommend such a trip!

 

[PineappleSkip]

But the appointment being in mid November, I hope restrictions will be lifted by then.

Five weeks is a long time in a shifting pandemic, hopefully. some of these restrictions are starting to look absurd. Victoria announced nearly three times as many cases as NSW yesterday, and yet they still have these extreme risk zone restrictions on Sydney and various other places in NSW.

Cheers skip

 

[antycbr]

Five weeks is a long time in a shifting pandemic, hopefully. some of these restrictions are starting to look absurd. Victoria announced nearly three times as many cases as NSW yesterday, and yet they still have these extreme risk zone restrictions on Sydney and various other places in NSW.

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Not only do they have those extreme risk classifications, they are still playing ads on radio and outdoor digital signage telling us dirty NSWelshpeople how we are verboten to enter the PDR Victoria. Laughable.