Thai Royal Orchid Plus major devaluation

[twiningb]

I got an email from Royal Orchid Plus the other day regarding these changes: Redeeming | Earn More Miles, New Award Charts

The email leaned heavily on the marginal improvements on the earn side for higher fare buckets and subtly mentions a correction in redemption rates "to align with other leading frequent flyer programs". However a check of the chart (now one-way) for likely target redemptions such as business to Europe or North America shows a huge devaluation. Australia to North America or Europe in business used to be 150k or 170k return respectively, now it's going to be 200k or 175k respectively one-way.

And this isn't just a typo on the chart where they've given return numbers for one-way, because a business round-the-world redemption is 725k.

This is huge and does not at all "align with other leading frequent flyer programs". Just within Star Alliance it's substantially worse than KrisFlyer (even after the upcoming correction) and half the per-point value of Mileage Plus or LifeMiles.

So if anyone was (like me) considering parking Amex miles in Royal Orchid Plus before the devaluation next month, you may want to think again unless you can redeem them quickly before October.

Also I'm surprised nobody at AusBT, Pointhacks or here, or even at One Mile at a Time seems to be talking about this yet, unless I've missed it?

 

[woodborer]

There's been a bit of coverage, but as you say, hardly extensive. Might reflect the popularity (or lack thereof) of the program in these parts.

Thai Airways adjusting earn and burn rates from October 1 - Fly Stay Points
Thai Airways Royal Orchid Plus Improves Earning Structure But Devalues Their Award Chart Effective 01 October 2019, Now Useless For Discount Economy Flyers!

 

[SOPOOR]

I got an email from Royal Orchid Plus the other day regarding these changes: Redeeming | Earn More Miles, New Award Charts

The email leaned heavily on the marginal improvements on the earn side for higher fare buckets and subtly mentions a correction in redemption rates "to align with other leading frequent flyer programs". However a check of the chart (now one-way) for likely target redemptions such as business to Europe or North America shows a huge devaluation. Australia to North America or Europe in business used to be 150k or 170k return respectively, now it's going to be 200k or 175k respectively one-way.

And this isn't just a typo on the chart where they've given return numbers for one-way, because a business round-the-world redemption is 725k.

This is huge and does not at all "align with other leading frequent flyer programs". Just within Star Alliance it's substantially worse than KrisFlyer (even after the upcoming correction) and half the per-point value of Mileage Plus or LifeMiles.

So if anyone was (like me) considering parking Amex miles in Royal Orchid Plus before the devaluation next month, you may want to think again unless you can redeem them quickly before October.

Also I'm surprised nobody at AusBT, Pointhacks or here, or even at One Mile at a Time seems to be talking about this yet, unless I've missed it?

sounds like they got some tips from the marketing team at amex "these reward changes are positive "

 

[Mattg]

These changes are indeed significant and make Royal Orchid Plus virtually worthless, come October.

The program did used to have a few sweet spots, e.g. 210k miles round-trip F from Australia to Europe. That will soon be long gone.

Reminds me a little of Enrich - this was also once a good program but then there were significant and successive devaluations over the space of a couple of years, and they've also now got rid of the oneworld multi-carrier redemptions.

 

[SOPOOR]

These changes are indeed significant and make Royal Orchid Plus virtually worthless, come October.

The program did used to have a few sweet spots, e.g. 210k miles round-trip F from Australia to Europe. That will soon be long gone.

Reminds me a little of Enrich - this was also once a good program but then there were significant and successive devaluations over the space of a couple of years, and they've also now got rid of the oneworld multi-carrier redemptions.

What actually happens to a program when its gotten to a point where its so ridiculous that people just dont bother

 

[Melburnian1]

What actually happens to a program when its gotten to a point where its so ridiculous that people just dont bother

Further evidence, not that any was needed, as to how amassing large numbers of FF points is a terrible strategy.

How relevant is TG to Australians travelling long distances (i.e. beyond BKK?) The airline was high profile in the 1970s, but appears to have steadily declined since then. It has reduced frequencies to and from Oz. It has too many aircraft types, similar to Ansett, and we know what happened to the latter.

Its only good feature is that timekeeping between SYD and BKK on TG is better than QF (QF23 can be a shocker).

 

[dajop]

I Australia to North America or Europe in business used to be 150k or 170k return respectively, now it's going to be 200k or 175k respectively one-way.

The bizarre bit on the the Europe award is that if you want to use Thai, and book all the way on Thai as a connection, you use the "Beyond Bangkok" award table, and it's 175k one way. If you use don't book it as a connection, but book it as two one ways, into and out of Bangkok, you use the "One Way- Direct Bangkok" table, and it is 60K + 95K = 155K.

 

[Mattg]

The bizarre bit on the the Europe award is that if you want to use Thai, and book all the way on Thai as a connection, you use the "Beyond Bangkok" award table, and it's 175k one way. If you use don't book it as a connection, but book it as two one ways, into and out of Bangkok, you use the "One Way- Direct Bangkok" table, and it is 60K + 95K = 155K.

Just shows you how much thought they've put into the changes!

 

[travelislife]

The bizarre bit on the the Europe award is that if you want to use Thai, and book all the way on Thai as a connection, you use the "Beyond Bangkok" award table, and it's 175k one way. If you use don't book it as a connection, but book it as two one ways, into and out of Bangkok, you use the "One Way- Direct Bangkok" table, and it is 60K + 95K = 155K.

How very Thai...

 

[rovingrabbit]

My first post but an avid follower of AFF.
I used to fly to Thailand with Thai and was a member with a large amount of accrued miles. However I found it extremely difficult to arrange and upgrade and almost as hard to get them to answer the phone. I found their program to be worth little and have let it slide.

 

[ctrunfree]

We use Thai a lot. One of the best features of ROP was using points to redeem hotel stays. I haven't see anything about any changes on that front, has anybody else?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How relevant is TG to Australians travelling long distances (i.e. beyond BKK?) The airline was high profile in the 1970s, but appears to have steadily declined since then. It has reduced frequencies to and from Oz. It has too many aircraft types, similar to Ansett, and we know what happened to the latter.

You don't hear many people saying they have booked Thai to fly to Europe these days (paid economy), but my last flight on TG was packed and there were half a dozen couples and families sitting around me that were all flying onwards to Europe (or in the case of three ocuples, connecting in BKK to LY to Tel Aviv). (All TG flights I've been on in the last 10 years (bar one) seem to be pretty full - so roughly a quarter million pax a year from MEL alone?)

And have a look at the transfer security queues at BKK - often snaking way out ack to the top of the escalators. Took me 45 minutes to get through. Most of those pax seemed to have TG boarding passes and connecting from all around Asia (and on to/from partners like MS and LY).

 

[Mattg]

You don't hear many people saying they have booked Thai to fly to Europe these days (paid economy), but my last flight on TG was packed and there were half a dozen couples and families sitting around me that were all flying onwards to Europe (or in the case of three ocuples, connecting in BKK to LY to Tel Aviv). (All TG flights I've been on in the last 10 years (bar one) seem to be pretty full - so roughly a quarter million pax a year from MEL alone?)

And have a look at the transfer security queues at BKK - often snaking way out ack to the top of the escalators. Took me 45 minutes to get through. Most of those pax seemed to have TG boarding passes and connecting from all around Asia (and on to/from partners like MS and LY).

I wonder if Thai's market share from Australia to Europe has dropped since they re-timed most of their Australian flights so they no longer connect (easily) to Europe.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wonder if Thai's market share from Australia to Europe has dropped since they re-timed most of their Australian flights so they no longer connect (easily) to Europe.

Dunno. Good question. But Thailand makes a pretty appealing stopover point, so maybe it hasn't impacted too much? MEL still has really good connections to Europe, perhaps that's why the planes are full.

 

[travelislife]

Dunno. Good question. But Thailand makes a pretty appealing stopover point, so maybe it hasn't impacted too much? MEL still has really good connections to Europe, perhaps that's why the planes are full.

The MEL flight times haven't changed in pretty much 15 years. Double daily. Pretty much always on time. It's a good service. Thai just haven't advertised in to the market in years.

 

[Tash Melbourne]

Im afraid I missed this email.....just glossed over it. What a big mistake. Thai are going the way of Malaysian Airlines IMO. If those are the points required for Thai flights I certainly won't be booking them, which pretty much kills LifeMiles for me as I mostly use them for Europe from Australia. Who would bother collecting their points after the devaluation. Yet another blow to the happy times of points business flights!

 

[Mattg]

Im afraid I missed this email.....just glossed over it. What a big mistake. Thai are going the way of Malaysian Airlines IMO. If those are the points required for Thai flights I certainly won't be booking them, which pretty much kills LifeMiles for me as I mostly use them for Europe from Australia. Who would bother collecting their points after the devaluation. Yet another blow to the happy times of points business flights!

The Royal Orchid Plus devaluation will not affect prices when booking with LifeMiles. They are separate programs.

 

[Tash Melbourne]

Yes. I suppose that is true. I will be interested to see if the current situation with pretty much NO business availability in Thai Business to and from Melbourne after about the month of June will continue. Looking very grim at the moment. I keep reading about great uses of LifeMiles from USA but it seems Australia does not experience the same sweet spots! I am struggling to find uses for business flights from Australia using Lifemiles. Any suggestions?? I am holding ALOT.

 

[Mattg]

Yes. I suppose that is true. I will be interested to see if the current situation with pretty much NO business availability in Thai Business to and from Melbourne after about the month of June will continue. Looking very grim at the moment. I keep reading about great uses of LifeMiles from USA but it seems Australia does not experience the same sweet spots! I am struggling to find uses for business flights from Australia using Lifemiles. Any suggestions?? I am holding ALOT.

The lack of Thai award availability could be temporary. It seems to have been triggered by Thai as it's also affecting availability when booking with United miles and other Star Alliance currencies.

There are other Star Alliance airlines other than TG that fly between Australia and Europe. Singapore Airlines availability to Europe is also non-existent with LifeMiles, but there may be possibilities (e.g.) flying SQ ADL/PER/CBR to SIN and then onwards with Turkish Airlines. Or with Asiana out of Sydney. Or Air India from SYD/MEL via DEL.

Just because there's no availability now, doesn't mean there won't be in 6 months. And vice versa. Things change all the time in this game, e.g. Turkish Airlines might launch a direct flight from Sydney to Istanbul next month with tons of availability.

 

[burmans]

That would be my assessment of this too!