Could we form a Lobby Group?

[Deleted member 29185]

I've found a foot in both camps works for me. It takes a bit of effort maintaining, but it removes the handcuffs. The airlines don't listen to us. The sooner one realises that, the more contented life becomes. Work them all to your benefit, rather than theirs. Perhaps consider gold with both, rather than WP with just one.

 

[Ansett]

I've found a foot in both camps works for me. It takes a bit of effort maintaining, but it removes the handcuffs. The airlines don't listen to us. The sooner one realises that, the more contented life becomes. Work them all to your benefit, rather than theirs. Perhaps consider gold with both, rather than WP with just one.

If VA were a member of star alliance it would be much more valuable as a lot of my travel is overseas. With LTG I could indeed change and become Platinum with VA and have a foot in both camps.

 

[CMA222]

Looks like QF are receiving criticism in the USA for their treatment of an Australian domestic involuntary downgrade of a J passenger, on a BA issued award . If the facts are as represented QF appear to have chosen an easy target, expecting minimum fuss and ignoring the impact on the passenger. Great for QF's reputation and further reinforcing the need for a Government imposed solution.

Reader Question: Qantas Involuntary Downgrade From Business To Economy On BA Issued Award?

 

[drron]

Terrible. The first the pax knew was when she was refused access to the J lounge.She was elderly and probably had no idea of the number of J rows.They did finally let her in as they should have.

 

[eastwest101]

I would also be open to the idea of a lobby group, and that would be for actual consumer focussed regulation, with teeth, not some limp wristed promise for regulators to look into it, because as the recent royal commission into banking, insurance and superannuation has proven, the existing regulators are totally ineffective.

Need to hit the airlines on the public relations front, in conjunction with real meaningful penalties that can be seen on a balance sheet.

And before anyone says that this increased regulation would result in higher costs may I point out that Australian airfares are already high by world standards without many effective consumer focused protections.

 

[JohnK]

I don't understand how Qantas or any airline continues to get away with these downgrades. Oversold cabin again?

 

[Forg]

I don't understand how Qantas or any airline continues to get away with these downgrades. Oversold cabin again?

Overselling is standard practice isn’t it?
But it’s really rare that it comes home to roost ...

 

[JohnK]

Overselling is standard practice isn’t it?
But it’s really rare that it comes home to roost ...

Not all airlines. Some manage to get their yields right. Qantas thinks it's ok to downgrade and ask you to pay for the privilege.

And if there were heavy penalties involved overselling wouldn't occur.

 

[boomy]

Not all airlines. Some manage to get their yields right. Qantas thinks it's ok to downgrade and ask you to pay for the privilege.

And if there were heavy penalties involved overselling wouldn't occur.

Don’t think QF oversell much, at least not on international sectors otherwise we would hear much more about it.

 

[Jleno]

I don't understand how Qantas or any airline continues to get away with these downgrades. Oversold cabin again?

I wonder given Australia's multitude of consumer protection laws and general over regulation on anything and everything, perhaps there is something in consumer protection legislation that can be the focus of a 'lobby' group. For example, most businesses in Australia are now aware of the 'goods fit for purpose' law that has meant Australia tends to get better warranty protections than other countries. So I'm thinking something similar on the airline industry regarding misrepresentation / unfair conduct etc vis a vis customers.

 

[JohnK]

Don’t think QF oversell much, at least not on international sectors otherwise we would hear much more about it.

There's quite a bit of overselling in economy. The difference now to 10 years ago is there are usually people wanting to use points to upgrade.

The other thing to think about is how many people would use the internet to complain?

 

[mannej]

There's quite a bit of overselling in economy. The difference now to 10 years ago is there are usually people wanting to use points to upgrade.

The other thing to think about is how many people would use the internet to complain?

Isn’t that what social media is for? Posting kid photos and rants about poor service?

 

[boomy]

There's quite a bit of overselling in economy. The difference now to 10 years ago is there are usually people wanting to use points to upgrade.

The other thing to think about is how many people would use the internet to complain?

Don’t recall reading much, neither good or bad reports about compensation offers (cash, accom etc) by QF due to overselling so I assume it doesn’t happen often.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wonder given Australia's multitude of consumer protection laws and general over regulation on anything and everything, perhaps there is something in consumer protection legislation that can be the focus of a 'lobby' group. For example, most businesses in Australia are now aware of the 'goods fit for purpose' law that has meant Australia tends to get better warranty protections than other countries. So I'm thinking something similar on the airline industry regarding misrepresentation / unfair conduct etc vis a vis customers.

Airlines would argue that they established the Airline Consumer Advocate. A body entirely funded by themselves. And that there is no need for anything extra.

I think part of the problem is that the courts and parliaments in most parts of the world haven't caught up with the modern economics and operations of airlines. Overselling was a common practice 60 years ago when business flyer might make multiple bookings on differnt airlines and only choose which flight they wanted on the day. Back then fares were fully refundable and airlines only operated limited frequencies (not half-hourly like they do now).

Today we have fares that are completely non-refundable. To me that means if a seat is sold, it's sold. if the customer is going to lose their money if they don't show up, it doesn't give the right to the airline to sell it to another customer. I have no doubt some airlines will actually oversell a flight deliberately, taking the higher fare and bumping to lower fare. That's not on.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Don’t recall reading much, neither good or bad reports about compensation offers (cash, accom etc) by QF due to overselling so I assume it doesn’t happen often.

But I wonder how much of this is due to who is paying for the ticket? Qantas business class fares are very high, and I don't know how many leisure travellers would pay for them when there are much cheaper alternatives available. If businesses are paying the fare, and the employee is downgraded, are we going to hear about it?

 

[JohnK]

Don’t recall reading much, neither good or bad reports about compensation offers (cash, accom etc) by QF due to overselling so I assume it doesn’t happen often.

Maybe not but Qantas usually handles these situations poorly. We had a long thread a few years back and there must have been a non disclosure agreement signed as we haven't heard further.

 

[boomy]

If businesses are paying the fare, and the employee is downgraded, are we going to hear about it?

Why not? Plenty business flyers on AFF and other travel groups sharing more trivial things. If QF regularly downgrade or offload pax due to overbookings (regardless of who paid for the ticket) I’m sure we would read much more about it on social media.

 

[JohnK]

Today we have fares that are completely non-refundable. To me that means if a seat is sold, it's sold. if the customer is going to lose their money if they don't show up, it doesn't give the right to the airline to sell it to another customer. I have no doubt some airlines will actually oversell a flight deliberately, taking the higher fare and bumping to lower fare. That's not on.

Of course it's not on but some here think it's fine for an airline to oversell. Executive bonuses have to come from somewhere.

 

[dajop]

Of course it's not on but some here think it's fine for an airline to oversell. Executive bonuses have to come from somewhere.

Of course it’s fine to oversell ..... economy ! I would never had one of several op-ups to J without overselling economy.

 

[Mattg]

Why not? Plenty business flyers on AFF and other travel groups sharing more trivial things. If QF regularly downgrade or offload pax due to overbookings (regardless of who paid for the ticket) I’m sure we would read much more about it on social media.

Qantas is notorious for not compensating properly when passengers are involuntarily downgraded. Their policy is to refund the difference between the J fare paid and the most expensive flexible economy fare. To me that is unfair as it doesn't take into account the actual price of an economy ticket at the time of booking, and no further compensation is offered either.

There have certainly been a few cases reported on AFF where this has happened, but I suspect we don't hear about most of them because AFF is a forum for frequent flyers. It would be rare for Qantas to downgrade someone with status - if they have to do this they would choose an infrequent flyer.