Virtue signalling: clutching at straws

[Melburnian1]

Australian governments and companies increasingly like to virtue signal, but not take substantive steps to fix problems.

Most plastics found in the ocean - a real problem that kills pelagics - come from about 10 river systems worldwide, and nations like mainland China, Vietnam, Indonesia and Philippines that have lengthy coastlines are also big contributors. In contrast, any problem doesn't seem to occur much in (so called) developed nations like Oz.

VA is removing plastic straws and substituting with (wait for it) paper straws and bamboo stirrers.

Yet the bigger picture is that the international recycling market has collapsed (at least for plastics and glass) due to mainland China no longer accepting these, and also how glass is cheap to manufacture in Asia and import to Oz.

VA doesn't separate its rubbish/recyclables on board, or at any point. Admittedly, it has very limited space on board even in galleys, but this would be a more practical step (assuming that eventually the 'recyclables' will be again able to be reprocessed).

This sort of rubbishy dark green/leftie virtue signalling shows how it's become the new quasi-religion.

If VA was really concerned about the health of oceans it would with its part owners in mainland China institute river clean up programs and proper rubbish collection (and landfills) in developing nations like close to home Indonesia and Philippines. That would be effective, instead of removing plastic straws from passengers.

 

[Vic]

Big assumption that this doesn't happen in developed countries. Where I live rubbish is constantly thrown out of cars. most weekend nights there will be macdonalds thrash on the street outside my place. including that macdonalds straws

Given that Virgin doesn't separate on board, and assuming they send their rubbish to landfill, there is a very high chance for plastic straws to end up in the ocean. Much better paper that will not kill someone. Having a my partner find a dead platypus this week killed by plastic I think any steps to reduce plastic waste are great.

Or we might find that Virgin burn the rubbish, like Qantas does.

As for China, they have banned unsorted imports for recycling. They will still accept sorted and cleaned stuff. Perfectly logically to make Australians sort out their recyclables.

I'd love to make a comment about the reactionaries who unreasonably complain about their perception of virtue signalling without considering the actual environmental benefits.

 

[Melburnian1]

Big assumption that this doesn't happen in developed countries. Where I live rubbish is constantly thrown out of cars. most weekend nights there will be macdonalds thrash on the street outside my place. including that macdonalds straws...

Given that Virgin doesn't separate on board, and assuming they send their rubbish to landfill, there is a very high chance for plastic straws to end up in the ocean. Much better paper that will not kill someone. Having a my partner find a dead platypus this week killed by plastic I think any steps to reduce plastic waste are great...

As for China, they have banned unsorted imports for recycling. They will still accept sorted and cleaned stuff. Perfectly logically to make Australians sort out their recyclables.

I'd love to make a comment about the reactionaries who unreasonably complain about their perception of virtue signalling without considering the actual environmental benefits.

In your first paragraph, you may have meant '...doesn't happen in developed countries...'

If rubbish is sent to landfill, why would it end up in the ocean? Landfills in Australia are generally subject to strict regulation.

Mainland China apparently even complains about labels being left on PET and other plastics. It's too labour intensive for Visy or other recyclers in Oz to employ someone to remove labels. so the ban may well stay re exports from Oz to mainland China. Us sorting out recyclables won't change that. I remove labels from soft drink and as much as I can milk and other bottles but that's ineffective because presumably everyone here would have to remove them before mainland China would even consider again accepting recyclables from Oz.

I suggested a far better course of action than the tiny - or no - benefit of removing plastic straws, which are better to drink from than paper straws. That's why they were invented, yet once more in Oz a consumer benefit is being withdrawn due to mad 'dark green' ideology becoming rampant.

 

[Vic]

In your first paragraph, you may have meant '...doesn't happen in developed countries...'

Probably why the quote of my post uses those words.

If rubbish is sent to landfill, why would it end up in the ocean? Landfills in Australia are generally subject to strict regulation.

There is this thing called the weather. Large amounts of lightwieght plastic is blown off landfills by the wind and washed off by rain.

Mainland China apparently even complains about labels being left on PET and other plastics. It's too labour intensive for Visy or other recyclers in Oz to employ someone to remove labels. so the ban may well stay re exports from Oz to mainland China. Us sorting out recyclables won't change that. I remove labels from soft drink and as much as I can milk and other bottles but that's ineffective because presumably everyone here would have to remove them before mainland China would even consider again accepting recyclables from Oz.

I suggested a far better course of action than the tiny - or no - benefit of removing plastic straws, which are better to drink from than paper straws. That's why they were invented, yet once more in Oz a consumer benefit is being withdrawn due to mad 'dark green' ideology becoming rampant.

When I've used straws I've found the efficacy of the paper and plastic versions to be equal. Both are perfectly capable of allowing negative pressure draw a liquid upwards to the mouth. Personally, I haven't used a straw since I was 12 years old, anyway.

The virtue signal of claiming that all efforts to reduce human pollution is a mad dark green ideology. Such a position distracts and impedes us from actually protecting the environment. It enables those people who think it is perfectly acceptable to throw their macdonalds waste out of the car window.

 

[sjk]

Use of the phrase "virtue signalling" and its variants is in itself a strong form of signalling, as are phrases such as "rubbishy dark green/leftie" and "mad 'dark green' ideology".

 

[AIRwin]

Sigh, it's not easy being green...

 

[Melburnian1]

Sigh, it's not easy being green...

But I'm very environmentally conscious. I volunteer for tasks related to it, don't throw McDonalds (or any) rubbish by roadsides (and don't eat McD anyway) and minimise use of water and energy. However, it isn't a substitute for religion (the latter a topic outside the scope of AFF).

My point, however is that companies have been captured by radical left extremists yet companies like VA do things that are ineffective, yet 'seem' fantastic. I suggested a more effective alternative (but this would cost VA more).

And all while economies like mainland communist China silently laugh at Westerners, as the Chinese have the most smog-ridden cities on earth. And VA has two mainland Chinese part owners!

 

[Vic]

The chinese are do vastly more than any western country to reduce carbon pollution. Not accepting recycling waste is all part of that, forcing the exporters to be responsible for their own waste. Easy to do when they control the economy and can just decide to address their problems without having to seek the approval of those who claim virtue signalling. The Germans and americans are increasing their pollution! We've gone 10 years without any sort of energy policy, and the government can't even introduce policy to support recycling.

I'd love to see the evidence that Virgin's removal of plastic straws will do nothing. That just seems to be your opinion with a big heap of bias against any effort to reduce pollution that you don't agree to.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I'd love to see the evidence that Virgin's removal of plastic straws will do nothing. That just seems to be your opinion with a big heap of bias against any effort to reduce pollution that you don't agree to.

I said it wasn't 'substantive.'

Companies ought concentrate on the bigger picture, but they won't because that would end up costing them a fair bit of money. Removing plastic straws? Piffle!

And I don't demonise carbon: it's an essential element, and by using coal intelligently we provide energy for countries, developed or developing. That improves quality of life, aided of course by sensible environmental regulation.

 

[mannej]

One must have their head buried in the sand if they believe removing plastic straws is piffle.

Do a Google search on plastic straws turtle and tell me that removing plastic straws is virtue signalling.

 

[RooFlyer]

Do a Google search on plastic straws turtle and tell me that removing plastic straws is virtue signalling.

I think the argument is that making a big song and dance about straws ( which is the latest crusade of the kiddies 'raising awareness') and not doing other things which would probably do more good is the 'virtue signalling'.

Looks like the 'we are all evil' lot have left the poor old 'poley bears' behind.

 

[marki]

I should know as my backside has been hauled over the coals for being too political

so here is my favourite Iranian's Rita Panahi's GIF for such occasions, Rita retweeted it in my twitter feed.

MortyAU on Twitter


I am still laughing

 

[mannej]

I think the argument is that making a big song and dance about straws ( which is the latest crusade of the kiddies 'raising awareness') and not doing other things which would probably do more good is the 'virtue signalling'.

Looks like the 'we are all evil' lot have left the poor old 'poley bears' behind.

I agree about the big song and dance (plastic bags come to mind), however this is a case of an easy win item.

 

[Melburnian1]

I agree about the big song and dance (plastic bags come to mind), however this is a case of an easy win item.

My point, mannej, was that it isn't substantive - so agree with you there - but also that in developed nations (where the great bulk of VA's disposals from its aircraft end up), landfills exist, and in most cases straws bundled up in plastic bags don't 'escape' into rivers or oceans.

So it's just pointless to ban such an item. You are correct re plastic bags as they were always more than one use and the new heavier ones apparently need '00s of uses before they're as 'efficient' as gray thinner ones that have been ditched.

 

[clipped_wings]

OT - and in no way referring to anyone here. But I'm the daughter of a passionate recycler who owned and managed a recycling plant at Port Stephens. He tried desperately to impart his obsession to his kids, mostly to no avail. I'm a self confessed "Purchaser of Modern Goods in Boxes and Plastic Packaging". But I've always been amused by those who proclaim to fly the green flag as New Age Conservationists. I see them on TV, on social media and in our community - all of them demonising a greedy and irresponsible First World for our materialistic ways. They bleat on about living off the Grid and imploring us to shun the Machine. Yet most of them are wearing shoes. And clothes with buttons and zippers. And holding a phone. Or wearing glasses/driving a car/riding a bike. All that stuff comes in boxes or bags, uses process that requires electrical/nuclear power and often manufacturing methods that pollute our skies and waterways, or ends up in landfill/oceans.

I could go on. But the fact of the matter is, unless everyone is prepared to wander into the woods and never set foot in society again, there is very little we can do to avoid contributing en masse to the ever growing glacier of human waste that is enveloping our planet. We can place those recycle bins out each week with a smile on our face, but we can't dictate where the bin goes from there. Out of sight, out of mind.

I worry for the mess we are leaving our kids. But we're on the right track at least. I applaud VA for taking the initiative. And hopefully, replacing straws on a plane is a tiny step, just as removing free shopping bags from checkouts is.

Now, if only someone could come up with a way to re-purpose those annoying foam coffee cups.............the reusable ones don't seem to have caught on!

 

[dajop]

I'm just trying to remember last time I used a straw - plastic or otherwise - on a plane ........ really struggling.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'm just trying to remember last time I used a straw - plastic or otherwise - on a plane ........ really struggling.

I don't use them often either.

But of an airline hands out a can of Pepsi or Coke, if it doesn't supply a straw, in whY (at least) one typically receives a plastic beaker (with or without ice).

These plastic cups/beakers are never recycled to my knowledge. I'm not necessarily suggesting they ought be (landfill may be a better solution) but it illustrates my point.

Many airline crew are not used to passengers reusing these plastics. Crew robotically take these form passengers after a single use. Wasteful!

Far more waste in cubic centimetres with these than straws.

 

[dajop]

I don't use them often either.

But of an airline hands out a can of Pepsi or Coke, if it doesn't supply a straw, in whY (at least) one typically receives a plastic beaker (with or without ice).

The airlines I fly don't hand that out can, they just pour half or less of it into a beaker - and use the remaining contents for the next person that asks. Hence no straws!

 

[eastwest101]

OT - and in no way referring to anyone here. But I'm the daughter of a passionate recycler who owned and managed a recycling plant at Port Stephens. He tried desperately to impart his obsession to his kids, mostly to no avail. I'm a self confessed "Purchaser of Modern Goods in Boxes and Plastic Packaging". But I've always been amused by those who proclaim to fly the green flag as New Age Conservationists. I see them on TV, on social media and in our community - all of them demonising a greedy and irresponsible First World for our materialistic ways. They bleat on about living off the Grid and imploring us to shun the Machine. Yet most of them are wearing shoes. And clothes with buttons and zippers. And holding a phone. Or wearing glasses/driving a car/riding a bike. All that stuff comes in boxes or bags, uses process that requires electrical/nuclear power and often manufacturing methods that pollute our skies and waterways, or ends up in landfill/oceans!

Sometimes people forget that pretty much everything you lay your hands on around you in your belongings have either been harvested from nature via plants and animals or are derived from stuff out of the earth oil, plastics and metals or from materiral that is manufactured or recycled derivatives of. There is no iPhone tree, and milk dosen't come in from outer space in a handy 2L plastic container.

Fair comments there - I think for airlines - reducing waste and costs is simply good business sense, or cynically, budget cuts dressed up as being good corporate citizens! You can announce a no straws policy and simply do it - fine. I think where the company makes a big song and dance about what is overall a small trivial contribution to the solution to a larger problem then its understandable that some become a bit cynical about the companies position. Especially when it goes beyong simply being a good a corporate citizen to the point of becoming advertising or "virtue signalling".

 

[drron]

So how many plastic straws does VA use anyway?