Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes - Online NOW!!

[Harpoon]

I think it is the degree of costliness of the awards that people are crying out for (some people that is) that has caused consternation.

I think people were expecting 200%-300% but 800% for some is the issue.

There are plenty of 50-300% increase fares, especially when booking non-peak and well in advance etc. which is how it should be. Those that want to book peak fares next week, then hell yeah expect 800% because QF is missing out on really big $$$$ for those expensive fares that would probably sell anyway.

 

[simongr]

But seriously, I'm honestly not sure what the fuss is about. The system seems "logical' at the very least to me. Sure it's a bit rediculous to expect 2.4m points for some fares, but SURELY that is just QF effectively saying "hey buddy, this seat isn't really redeemable, but if you wanna burn 2.4m points hey it's all yours". And then QF redeem the cost of that seat because that QFF member is 2.4m points poorer and cant redeem them later on.

Most of the complaints I hear on this board and in general chit chat of high points pax is that they can't get J/F SYD-LAX or similar not that they can't get SYD-PER - this change was meant to address that and hasn't. The points required make it prohibitive so for the most elusive awards there is no change.

 

[Harpoon]

Most of the complaints I hear on this board and in general chit chat of high points pax is that they can't get J/F SYD-LAX or similar not that they can't get SYD-PER - this change was meant to address that and hasn't. The points required make it prohibitive so for the most elusive awards there is no change.

Fair enough, but there have also been some very general "this new program sucks" type comments which I think is really unfair. As we know, the proof will be in the pudding later on....whether or not "classic award flights" disappear slowly over time

And also, isn't that SYD-LAX comment no surprise given how busy that route is all year round? it would be stupid of QF to offer up heaps of anyseat awards on that route as they'd lose a lot of money one would think...

 

[NM]

Most of the complaints I hear on this board and in general chit chat of high points pax is that they can't get J/F SYD-LAX or similar not that they can't get SYD-PER - this change was meant to address that and hasn't. The points required make it prohibitive so for the most elusive awards there is no change.

And not only can they not find SYD-LAX in J or F, but they can't get it 9 months out in non-peak times either.

 

[Mal]

Fair enough, but there have also been some very general "this new program sucks" type comments which I think is really unfair. As we know, the proof will be in the pudding later on....whether or not "classic award flights" disappear slowly over time

I don't think the new scheme sucks. Instead, I think it's overpriced for what is offered and that Qantas undervalues their FF points. It really makes the new scheme laughable.

If I was to top up my points, I'm paying about 3c/point. They value them at around 1c/point for redemption. Even then, they aren't a cash equivalent - in that you don't earn additional FF points for using the points (not that I would expect you to!).

I don't see Classic awards disappearing, however as the number/routes/cabins that these are offered on are a yield management black art, then nobody will ever know if there is a difference. Certainly Qantas can put some pretty graphs in the next Annual report, but that doesn't show the full story.

 

[oliverd]

As many have said, as long as the "classic" seat availability is not limited ever further this change means no-one is actually worse and more seats will be available (even if many are at often ridiculous rates). Maybe I am being paranoid, but if Qantas is planning to spin off the FF business this makes it very easy to retire any "classic" seats (ie. F and J) that represent great value to frequent flyers and a high opportunity cost to Qantas. What hasn't been widely discussed (probably because I'm on the wrong thread is that the last time Qantas devalued the FF scheme, there was no real alternative to QF if you accrued points from domestic flights.... Now it seems you can join Virgin Atlantic, earn points on domestic flights (Virgin Blue) and on Europe and soon US flights with Virgin and transfer points from Amex... I'll about to do some research on this flight, but if anyone can point me to the best thread for alternative programs for QFF that would be most appreciated... might be to time to jump ship...

 

[kpc]

From my reading of this thread, and doing a few dummy bookings on the QF web site, this is my analysis / understanding:

1) The key is that there is no reduction to Classic awards with the advent of Anyseat awards. The problem is that we don't know how many seats there are in Classic awards now so we will never know if QF slowly reduce their number. There needs to be some transparency with this!

2) Economy awards on Anyseats don't seem to be too outlandish compared to the Classic award, especially if booked way in advance.

3) If you want to book premium classes under Anyseat (which are few and far between under Classic awards, esp if you don't book early), then you will pay a huge premium in points, especially if you book close to intended departure date.

4) Had a quick glance at the frequent flyer store, and came to the usual conclusion that it was better to buy these items outright from your local store with cash as you get very poor value for your hard earned QF points.

So overall, I don't think Anyseat is as bad as everyone is screamimg unless you intend to redeem for J/F awards esp. at short notice. It does give you however access to seats that you previously didn't have access to. If, however, QF slowly reduce the number of Classic Awards seats, then this would represent a significant devaluation of QF points.

Anyway, I'll spend more time digesting these changes, and may yet still change my opinion...

 

[simongr]

I'll about to do some research on this flight, but if anyone can point me to the best thread for alternative programs for QFF that would be most appreciated... might be to time to jump ship...

Dont forget changing FFP doesnt have to mean changing carrier...

 

[oliverd]

Dont forget changing FFP doesnt have to mean changing carrier...

Thanks. I hadn't considered that; it does mean there are quite a few options to consider!

 

[TheFergus]

>Some of the comments from contributers in this very thread sound to me like "every seat
>should be a cheap award fare and I should be able to go any day any flight" which is
>simply nonsense and would send QF broke.

Zactly! Harpoon, these points do not fall on the lawn at night. They are paid for when I purchase tickets and use my credit card.

If they were not pat of this, my flights or my goods would be cheaper.

But curiously, my Reward Flights just more than quadrupled???

 

[simongr]

But curiously, my Reward Flights just more than quadrupled???

No they didnt - your reward flights stayed the same. The difference is that a bunch of scalpers just walked up and offered you whatever you want at a price - you can still go to the box office and take your chance...

 

[Harpoon]

No they didnt - your reward flights stayed the same. The difference is that a bunch of scalpers just walked up and offered you whatever you want at a price - you can still go to the box office and take your chance...

Hehe... very good analogy actually.

Once people see it simply as a "two tier" system where the old system is still there, the more it'll be seen as a positive move by QF, despite the handful of outrageous million-point redemptions now available.

 

[tuapekastar]

I think Qantas, as ever, and as is practical business sense from their point of view, is getting away with (for want of a better term) what they think they can, 'what the market will bear' sort of thing. And if reaction is genuinely and widespreadedly (a word?) bad and does start to cause them tangible grief in any way then they should have the room to tweak the system and Anytime points redemption values to try and stop the rot before it sets in too much.

I haven't had a chance to get on the new qff.com.au site and have a good look at redemption rates but the ones posted here and elsewhere are, I think, pretty damn pricey to say the least, and if QF don't have it right then they will need to adjust.

From a personal viewpoint if, and it's a big if, 'Classic' award availablity is not reduced then I haven't lost anything in that regard.

Does anyone know, if someone like the ACCC decided QF may be fibbing about the (non) reduction of Classic award seats, do they have the teeth to force QF to show 'em the relevant books (not that the ACCC is likely to do anything like this)?

 

[Tooner]

Overall when I read it all this morning I was left thinking, like a number of other people, that it was pretty much as expected, albeit at a higher burn rate than expected, but not a big issue for me. Others may (and do) hold different opinions, but I don't save points for a mega flight.

One thing we should remember: QFF want to keep the redemption rates changing so no-one can fix the value of a point, but want to make it expensive enough to justify releasing what would otherwise be $$ revenue earning seats. I think that made sense:shock:

 

[AnonymousCoward]

There are plenty of 50-300% increase fares, especially when booking non-peak and well in advance etc. which is how it should be. Those that want to book peak fares next week, then hell yeah expect 800% because QF is missing out on really big $$$$ for those expensive fares that would probably sell anyway.

At least there is one person here who can see the QANTAS' perspective on this

Not that I necessarily agree with what QANTAS is doing, but it seems perfectly logical. QANTAS isn't going to give up a 15k SYD-LAX or SYD-LHR J seat for some trivial amount of points, knowing that they can most likely sell it for cash.

 

[NM]

At least there is one person here who can see the QANTAS' perspective on this

Not that I necessarily agree with what QANTAS is doing, but it seems perfectly logical. QANTAS isn't going to give up a 15k SYD-LAX or SYD-LHR J seat for some trivial amount of points, knowing that they can most likely sell it for cash.

That is why I would have preferred to see something less than Anyseat availability. I can live with reduced availability - that is just logical. So perhaps a model where the second tier of awards were priced at up to 100% premium points cost and taken from L, D, A availability may have made sense. When you consider how much real $ revenue QF received from a trans-Pacific segment of a xONEx fare, we know it can't be anywhere near the price charged for a Y, J or F seat.

For example, take an $11,000 DONE4 fare where there are 4 x trans-continental flights plus up to 12 other intra-continental segments. So they can't be earning any more than $2000 for the trans-Pacific segment. And at the much commented 1c/point mark, that would make a one0way SYD-LAX business class SomeSeat award coming from D inventory to be worth about 200,000 points, or 400,000 for a return trip. That would be close to double the 192,000 points for a Classic business class award. Then I think we would have a reasonable second tier of awards, with availability coming from known classes as L, T, D and A.

 

[bambbbam2]

The 'Points Calculators' seems to have been nuked...

 

[pauly7]

Indeed I will not be taking on a credit card that does direct sweep into QF FF. My Amex Rewards Maximiser and CBA Gold Visa will continue to be my cards of choice. That way I can put the points where I can best use them.

I think this is actually the most interesting part. QFF have now in a way set themselves up as a competitor to the CC rewards programs with the big new FF shop which as illustrated has better rates on some items... Or do the CC companies see QFF as potentially doing their job for them?!....

...Hypothetically if AMEX changed all their cards to direct sweep and let QFF handle all the redemptions - imagine the money they would save... The only thing they would be removing would be the ability to transfer to other airlines - perhaps this is very low in Aus... who knows? Very interesting... Maybe there would be a merger of Ascent and QFF....

 

[pauly7]

LOL It is hilarious all the squealing about the new program! This thread is great entertainment value. For me, nothing really that unexpected having seen the leaksover the last couple of weeks and I have had a hunt around, found some nice suprises on the routes I fly so I'm ok.

I think its so funny all the people screaming they are 'jumping ship' in one liner posts... to where exactly?! Hope they do - more avails for the rest of us

At the end of the day, really nothing has 'changed' per se - so at worst you are still unhappy with the classic system which is staying, oh well.

 

[Platy]

That is why I would have preferred to see something less than Anyseat availability.

BUT BUT BUT their model is NOT based on PRICE my learned friend!!! :shock:

The algorithms used to determine point costs are very far from obvious and that is clearly a DELIBERATE PLOY!!!

It is all smoke and mirrors.....fool the customer, jerk the customer around, con them into dumping mega points...at what point does the concept of any seat become practically meaningless because the points required are so high the seat will definitely not be taken (unless someone is reallly really stupid to blow the points)???!!!

Any seat has little benefit to customers given the exorbitant redemption rates...unless those customers have serious misconceptions about the value of their hard won points...and eventually that is BAD for QF because it is insulting to their loyal customer base...IT'S NUTS!!!

Spin spin spin around the rude roo PR machine in full flight...

IF you have any remaining doubt about their collective wisdom (or lack thereof) try out the interactive feedback questionnaire on the "new program" - wonder at the mastery of market research techniques, data gathering, in depth analysis and sensitive appreciation of customer disposition, which can be gathered from just a couple of meaningless questions...what a bunch of total dimwits...

Personally, I would FIRE the bunch of idiots with my boot up their backsides who dreamt up this coughola if they worked for my (extremely humble) business...