How bad is it. TA opinion.

[maninblack]

Just having a gossip with my TA. Her boss has been in the business over 30 years and reckons there is a significant downturn in some areas of international travel, despite the high $AUD, that is just starting to really show now.

I am told that QF and JQ have some major issues on some routes. How accurate any of this is I cannot confirm but he seems to have quite a bit of info. So here's the "goss".

Both SYD and MEL-PVG are very flat markets at the moment with little sign of improvement. Loads are terribly low.

SYD-MNL is a chronic under-performer especially in the J cabin.

SYD-LAX may see a reduction in services.

SYD-NRT ditto.

JQ new service MEL-SIN is struggling badly.

JQ Starclass has very low loads on many services and is disappointing.

JQ to HNL only does well in school holiday periods. Otherwise flying fairly empty.

JQ to NGO struggling with Starclass generally flying near empty.

He reckons that JQ will have to structure more seasonal timetables to be cost effective and that acceptance of JQ on some routes has been very good but surprisingly poor on others.

Anyway, will be interesting to see how accurate this is and what QF/JQ do this week.

 

[simongr]

Both SYD and MEL-PVG are very flat markets at the moment with little sign of improvement. Loads are terribly low.

I wonder how much of this is pre-Olympics slow down for non-Beijing locations and how much currently is due to the Earthquake.

Also I think there are some restrictions on visas in the run up to the Olympics.


Bizarrely due to some happenings this could potentially be my biggest flying year...

 

[Timtammi]

I can believe all of that. I flew QF MEL-PVG last week and could not believe how empty the plane was. I was in J (points upgrade) in row 3 and there were only 7 seats out of 18 taken. I would estimate that the whole plane was probably only 1/3 full. I had heard the same thing about visas to China, luckily I have a multiple 12 entry 12 month one with a few months left so no issues for me right now.

Last month my MEL-NRT flight was cancelled due to the service being permanently cancelled I think and I was rebooked on MEL-SYD, SYD-NRT return. Plane was also fairly lightly loaded, also managed to score a points upgrade on that one. When in the QC last week noticed that MEL-NRT was on the board but it was a JAL codeshare.

Cheers

 

[stuartfaz]

JQ new service MEL-SIN is struggling badly.

JQ Starclass has very low loads on many services and is disappointing.

I reckon a JQ MEL-SIN service would be pretty successful if it was actually a direct MEL-SIN service, as opposed to a TT/TR-esque MEL-DRW-SIN offering.

If they stuck an A330 with the 2-class offering on the route I think it'd do fairly well.

As for Starclass, nobody I've spoken to who's flown in the cabin has reported it as being more than 30-40% full, so it could be a concern for JQ/QF. I wouldn't think the offering would be going anywhere soon though.

 

[Fluid-Flyer]

As for Starclass, nobody I've spoken to who's flown in the cabin has reported it as being more than 30-40% full, so it could be a concern for JQ/QF. I wouldn't think the offering would be going anywhere soon though.

I think they should price/market Star Class as an "Add-on" rather than at a set price.

It offers 23% more leg room, and 17% more elbow room, in terms of add-on value?

 

[MelUser]

Anything (which this appears to do) which frees up (U) class seats is a plus for passengers!

 

[Evan]

SYD-MNL is a chronic under-performer especially in the J cabin.

This makes some sense i think, could not imagine it being a huge J market. Probably priced more than a SYD-SIN-MNL flight would cost !

SYD-NRT ditto.

On some days they run double flights, i have mostly seen these flights busy but maybe its the day service QF167 on the 767 that is slow, the night service QF21 always seems busy when i have flown.
JO771/772 is a 744 service so thats a lot of seats also on this route.
Maybe we see the additional QF179/QF135/QF136 droped, actually QF179 already looks to be out since begining of May.

E

 

[Keith009]

Last month my MEL-NRT flight was cancelled due to the service being permanently cancelled I think ...

MEL-NRT is still alive and well 3 x weekly in the schedules, though with flight numbers changed from QF179 to QF119 later this year.

 

[JohnK]

He reckons that JQ will have to structure more seasonal timetables to be cost effective and that acceptance of JQ on some routes has been very good but surprisingly poor on others.

Lets see. JQ has apparently failed with HNL, NGO and SIN. Which JQ international routes are actually successful? There is only BKK/HKT, KIX and SGN left.

I can understand why starclass is under utilised. It is because the starclass airfares are an absolute joke. Someone mentioned starclass should be an "add-on". OK no problem with that idea or just reprice starclass airfares based on the perceived value of the product. Yes the customer should have a say in this particular matter. JQ is not QF to be able to get away by charging exhorbitant airfares in their premium cabins.

Anyway, will be interesting to see how accurate this is and what QF/JQ do this week

I know what JQ needs to do to start getting more acceptance but I am not going to post it as I am going to get flamed again for being a JQ basher.

Anything (which this appears to do) which frees up (U) class seats is a plus for passengers!

I find this statement hard to understand. You mean you would like to see the business class cabin empty so that you can purchase a cheap economy ticket and upgrade to business class with points? Unfortunately if business class continues to perform badly that route may be taken off the schedule and then it will be really difficult for you to find U class availability.

 

[ANstar]

QF should look at reduced J tickets (ie I Class) on certain routes that can't fill it with higher fares - much like BA does with Orlando, Carribean and Mauritus flights.

That way they may be able to make a bit more $$$ out of places like MNL

Same goes for Star class - the fares they charge to Japan are down expensive (3k ish return!)

 

[Platy]

Lets see. JQ has apparently failed with HNL, NGO and SIN. Which JQ international routes are actually successful? There is only BKK/HKT, KIX and SGN left.

It makes you wonder whether the QF Group did any decent market research before blatantly shafting QF services in favour of Deathstar on some international routes!

Here in Cairns it was generally accepted that the Japanese market wouldn't take up the LCC model if considering a holiday in OZ. QF/Deathstar were apparently oblivious to this concern.

It also makes you wonder about the claims of Deathstar as best LCC!!!

Incidentally, Starclass to HNL is somethinjg like $1,300-$1,500 one way ex SYD, but just $1,000 one way back if booked in reverse. How much is the seat actualy worth? Answer ZERO if left empty...

As I love to say, QF are playing a very dicey game fudging their branding with Deathstar and increasingly blurring the edges between products (eg. no points, SCs on QF codeshare flights on the deathly scarebus).

The Irish dwarf and the six million dollar (a year) man need to watch their butts lest they get bit

 

[Evan]

In Japan, Jetstar generally advertise inclusive of the feed-me, comfort-me packs. This is always what i have seen when i have been visiting Kobe/Osaka area and seen adverts in press/tv.
So not such an LCC service.
E

 

[MelUser]

That's because the Japanese market likes to be treated well - ie given goodies when they get on the plane!

 

[maninblack]

I notice that there was no announcement by Qantas/JQ today about the International routes. Dixon said that it would be within the week but I suspect it is a pretty complicated issue they are working on. "Trouble in Paradise" I suspect :!:

 

[Travel Guru]

Apparantly Qantas are dropping the twice daily SYD-OOL vv. service from July which ends all QF services into OOL.

Makes you wonder whether they'll keep the QP open, seems a waste just for 1* flights.

I guess ill be flying out of BNE even more now!

TG

 

[ANstar]

Makes you wonder whether they'll keep the QP open, seems a waste just for 1* flights.

I think NZ are eyeing it - so it is doubtful it will remain open

 

[Travel Guru]

Not sure how they think they're going to have pax access it since it's at opposite ends to the "international departure area".

Personally I think they need to seriously consider bulldozing the place and building an ADL style modern airport, it's seriously inequiped for the current traffic.

TG

 

[Danger]

As I love to say, QF are playing a very dicey game fudging their branding with Deathstar and increasingly blurring the edges between products (eg. no points, SCs on QF codeshare flights on the deathly scarebus).

Flying JQ SYD-MEL a few weeks back I was amazed to see the monitors showing the standard QF promos with the Australian Children's Choir. They even had the recorded voice over saying "you're flying with the Spirit of Australia."

 

[maninblack]

It makes you wonder whether the QF Group did any decent market research before blatantly shafting QF services in favour of Deathstar on some international routes!

Here in Cairns it was generally accepted that the Japanese market wouldn't take up the LCC model if considering a holiday in OZ. QF/Deathstar were apparently oblivious to this concern.

It also makes you wonder about the claims of Deathstar as best LCC!!!

Incidentally, Starclass to HNL is somethinjg like $1,300-$1,500 one way ex SYD, but just $1,000 one way back if booked in reverse. How much is the seat actualy worth? Answer ZERO if left empty...

As I love to say, QF are playing a very dicey game fudging their branding with Deathstar and increasingly blurring the edges between products (eg. no points, SCs on QF codeshare flights on the deathly scarebus).

The Irish dwarf and the six million dollar (a year) man need to watch their butts lest they get bit

A long time back I think I made some comments on JQ international and whether the Oz market would take to the LCC model. HNL is an interesting example because it is primarily a leisure market but a high end one. Many people still stopover there on the way back from the US or after skiing in North America. I remember when the $AUD was around 50c to the USD and flying twice to HNL and back on near full 742's and 743's which was a 3 times a week service. Then and still today I would regularly see well known Australian celebs and BRW top 200 identities on that flight, often with their families. Guess what, they don't want Jetstar and will still book QF today. Hayman resort was furious when flights to Hamilton all went to JQ. The LCC's suit budget minded travelers but they will be the first to stop traveling when the economy gets tougher and interest rates go up. The business and upper middle to high end traveler will still travel but they don't want an LCC. I think TG runs 3 flights a day MEL-BKK and it does well. JQ struggles to sell seats on this route which QF has ignored for years.

 

[Batesy]

Nobody has mentioned SYD-KUL for the JQ int services. I am booked with them to KUL in November. Hoping QF dont cancel this route and also that they have light loads in *class so we can get the cheapie upgrade at check in.