Passenger Forcibly Removed From Overbooked UA Flight

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Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

New statement (mea culpa?) from UA president:
Hard not to be a little bit cynical in light of his earlier (private) communication.

This is Oscar's chance to get stuff right. And for the other airlines to learn and act. Southwest, it seems, is way ahead of the pack.

Southwest.jpg
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

WH (Spicer is a DTs mouthpiece) also said overnight that "Hitler never used chemical weapons against his own people" so allow me to not give a cough* what the WH has to say about UA.

UA shares will bounce back, people will fly with them. People's attention span is small these days.
I agree. Spicer's comments - on this, Hitler, and many other things - demonstrate that he shares his master's incompetence.

Now is probably a good time to buy United stock. Mind you. I'm guessing a lot of the sales were from short-sellers expecting a dip, and they'll buy back again as soon as there's a swing. Stock price will jump higher than before, is my guess.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Yes, profit takers will see the oppo as always. But, I hope this debacle becomes a good case study of negative big cooperate behaviour and what to not do after a massive stuff up.

Now is probably a good time to buy United stock. Mind you. I'm guessing a lot of the sales were from short-sellers expecting a dip, and they'll buy back again as soon as there's a swing. Stock price will jump higher than before, is my guess.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I agree. Spicer's comments - on this, Hitler, and many other things - demonstrate that he shares his master's incompetence.

Now is probably a good time to buy United stock. Mind you. I'm guessing a lot of the sales were from short-sellers expecting a dip, and they'll buy back again as soon as there's a swing. Stock price will jump higher than before, is my guess.

The stock will bounce back - and the dip was not ALL due to this issue - traffic results were released yesterday too.

However - you are both wrong and miss the point.

Spicer's competence is irrelevant to the fact that the raising of this issue raises its prominence, and increases pressure on the DOT and Congress to "appear to do something". Gov. Christie has now explicitly called for overbooking to be no longer permissible.

This is a significant development and will increase pressure on UA and AA/DL to pre-empt the politicians by revamping their bumping rules.

But by all means continue to allow your political views to cloud your analysis of these developments.
 
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Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Munoz may have changed his tone now, but the fact that it took this long signals to me that he doesn't really care at all about the passenger.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Yes, he won his best communicator prize for his 'good' comms with his staff, this has left out the vital part of his business, his customers, and possibly emboldened inappropriately his staff.

Munoz may have changed his tone now, but the fact that it took this long signals to me that he doesn't really care at all about the passenger.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

There's now discussion that this was actually a "denied transport" situation rather than "denied boarding" (since he'd already boarded), and as such may have actually been in contravention of the contract of carriage since the "denied transport" rules don't allow for this situation.

Some commentary and relevant links on this aspect at OMAAT. Following the link to 'denial of transport', the pax's situation appears not to be covered. I think United may need to dial up the grovelling.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Never tell united your a doctor!
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Blame the victim now. Apparently this doctor was been previously suspended from practice, as if this makes a difference. UA has 20% of the China market which is set to double in the next years. This video has been watched in China >200 million times so far.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Some commentary and relevant links on this aspect at OMAAT. Following the link to 'denial of transport', the pax's situation appears not to be covered. I think United may need to dial up the grovelling.

That is interesting. We'll be reading about this incident for years... about time airlines were on the other end of the big stick!
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Lovely turnaround in a day from United president.

Nothing will change. The arrogance will remain.
 
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Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Well, the "Communicator of the Year" award winner finally remembered or learned the first rule of what to do when the corporate s**t hits the fan.

What's that? Be contrite? One might argue that he's not right now, you know, crocodile tears and snake oil...

In Japan, one might be expected to resign and/or commit suicide, since one's honour is now lost.

I bet that 'police' person dragging the man off the plane is pleased to be on leave and unreachable.

Well, unless there's a bunch of people out to kill him... though I can imagine a trip to the grocery store might be a bit awkward or difficult...

However - you are both wrong and miss the point.

Spicer's competence is irrelevant to the fact that the raising of this issue raises its prominence

Can we separate both of these things (i.e. the competence of Spicer quoting Hitler or being an effective communicator, versus the side effect of his mentioning the issue)? In fact, the linked article doesn't show (and yes I'm a bit lazy here), but were those two issues - Hitler and how UA handled this - raised within the same speech for the same incident?

, and increases pressure on the DOT and Congress to "appear to do something". Gov. Christie has now explicitly called for overbooking to be no longer permissible.

One might argue that Christie has requested many things which were controversial before, and he is of suspicious character. However, to go by your previous train of thought, the fact he raised it means something.

Also it is quite easy for DOT and Congress to "appear to do something". Our government is also quite good at that. We all know that that is a far cry from actually doing something.

This is a significant development and will increase pressure on UA and AA/DL to pre-empt the politicians by revamping their bumping rules.

When you say "bumping rules", do you mean along the lines of assuming that overbooking will be banned?

I'd like to see how overbooking would be banned, viz. its definition, its enforcement and how it will encourage airlines not to break those rules.


What is amazing is that how did an incident like this spark some sort of reaction like this? Did it take someone to be physically hurt? If this man was not physically hurt at all in the process, this incident would hardly be on the news. In fact, if he was simply marched off and he shouted his head off, the reaction might have been more of, "get the **** off the plane and let us fly," rather than four UA crew getting death stares and one CEO getting death threats (hypothetically and figuratively speaking).

People and the media have been talking about TSA agents "assaulting" passengers - some incidents are verified and some agents are fired. We see baggage handlers convicted of theft. None of these, nor the sum collection of such incidents, have attracted any sort of groundswell of political action compared to this single incident (assuming we are to believe that something tangible will result from it).
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Can we separate both of these things (i.e. the competence of Spicer quoting Hitler or being an effective communicator, versus the side effect of his mentioning the issue)? In fact, the linked article doesn't show (and yes I'm a bit lazy here), but were those two issues - Hitler and how UA handled this - raised within the same speech for the same incident?

Both separate issues came up during the WH press conference. One is not related to the other and is totally irrelevant to this issue.


One might argue that Christie has requested many things which were controversial before, and he is of suspicious character. However, to go by your previous train of thought, the fact he raised it means something.

Also it is quite easy for DOT and Congress to "appear to do something". Our government is also quite good at that. We all know that that is a far cry from actually doing something.?

Absolutely - but the fact that this has been raised at the highest levels - serves to embolden those who want to gain mileage from the issue (eg. various politicians).




When you say "bumping rules", do you mean along the lines of assuming that overbooking will be banned?

I'd like to see how overbooking would be banned, viz. its definition, its enforcement and how it will encourage airlines not to break those rules.?

The result will be that to "head-off" over-regulation, the airlines will come back to Congress/DOT with a new updated set of policies that are most likely an improvement on required compensation and procedures, and that will be the end of it.

Oscar has set the scene for an update from UA at the end of the month - no doubt this will be the catalyst for whatever "updates" occur, however minor and tokenistic.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

this is not getting any better for United! https://www.buzzfeed.com/janelytvynenko/no-drop-just-drag?utm_term=.oyJYEwLR0#.md30Mn1G7

after they had people blown out of the plane in the cargo door incident it apparently took only a few weeks for ticket sales to recover after they did a 2-for-1 special across all classes. think it's going to be much more expensive to repair the brand damage this incident will cause...
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Oscar the CEO's response might have been effective if this was the first thing we heard from him, not the third. Too little, too late.

Loving the fallout from the Chinese market.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Dare I post it, but here's another opinion.

I have to say, it sounds absolutely cold and it probably doesn't help that there is a strong collectively low opinion of the author here, but some of what is stated is true.

The Real Reason a Man Was Dragged Off That United Flight, and How to Stop It From Happening Again - View from the Wing

Naturally the author is taking a lot of flak here; had he been trying to give his opinion in a public forum, he'd probably been hit by a flying chair by now.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Dare I post it, but here's another opinion.

I have to say, it sounds absolutely cold and it probably doesn't help that there is a strong collectively low opinion of the author here, but some of what is stated is true.

The Real Reason a Man Was Dragged Off That United Flight, and How to Stop It From Happening Again - View from the Wing

Naturally the author is taking a lot of flak here; had he been trying to give his opinion in a public forum, he'd probably been hit by a flying chair by now.
The so called travel expert GL backtracking after trying to defend UA yesterday and sparking outrage amongst his (? soon to be ex) readers!...and this will / could result in his blog taking a hit financially.
 
Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

<snip>

Naturally the author is taking a lot of flak here; had he been trying to give his opinion in a public forum, he'd probably been hit by a flying chair by now.

Really?

Anyway, I read that VFTW article before and while it has some useful analysis, I am still none the wiser about "the real reason" the pax was dragged off the flight.
 
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