The demise of first class

[Mogul]

Next generation of luxury in the air.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/...ss-suites-next-for-the-airbus-a380/Millmerran

 

[Kangol]

This. And... who wants to spend 24 hours in a 14 seat jet? Gimme the wide-body experience with showers, bars, enclosed suites, multi course meals with options for each course. The time saving on long haul is probably less significant... the one hour before departure at an airport means a lot less on 24 hours than it does on 2 hours.

I had a quick look for 'private jet transatlantic' - they are quoting £81000 return LHR-MIA. 12 seats. That's comparable to a full First return on BA, but you gotta fill all 12 seats. And when you do that you ain't getting a bed

Crossing the Atlantic by private jet | PrivateFly

Look at SYD-LHR on that site. They start at ~160k Euros and have a lot in the ~250k range for Global Express/6000 and G5s. Go up to just under 800k Euros for the corporate jets.
Now compare that to last minute full fare F tickets on QF, or one of the more expensive carriers.
Doesn't compare. Also look at all the airline reports that a majority of F pax travel alone. You may get a group where you can split it 14 ways, ie. the size of the QF and EK A380 F cabin, but then again, is it really *private*?

 

[vantage03]

First Class is primarily there to attract Chairmen and CEOs to keep big corporate contracts with the legacy full service airlines, and for the high-end leisure market and aspirational traveller. These people want privacy, exclusivity, to feel special and to receive a high level of service... it isn't just about the flat bed. The flat bed is good enough for most, but 'most people' aren't the target market for First Class. Neither are miles & points bloggers or maximisers.
First Class isn't going anywhere anytime soon, it's only going to get better.

 

[seanpodge]

While tragically lacking any experience in first class whatsoever, I would posit that the two main reasons for its decline are that business class is now increasingly either equal or close enough that it's difficult to justify any price premium for first class and that many first class tickets are points redemptions/upgrades. So, beyond a few flagship routes (e.g. long hauls to NYC, LAX, LON, CDG, et al) and on the biggest planes (most likely 777 and bigger) it will be phased out. OZ for instance is cutting F on all planes except their A380s.

Of course, there's the mega rich who could fly private if wished, but I think it's probably not big enough a market for a scheduled service commercial carrier to chase over more realistic J and P+ opportunities.

 

[Spongbob]

While tragically lacking any experience in first class whatsoever, ...

Seanpodge, this is the AFF spirit!

 

[cove]

This thread is a reminder to book to get home from our New Year run to London and back. Hoping for a Suites return on SQ.

 

[Denali]

...... business class is now increasingly either equal or close enough ......

We've clawed our way from the back of Y to J and Im happy. I tell myself Im happy, we're happy. We perfectly happy in J, its good in J, we're good in J.

But lately.... Ive been thinking, my eye has been wandering. Can we try F just once? Can we actually get The Residence or The Apartments or the Suites, just for a flight, to see what its like, using points of course because financially its out of reach.

Then we will go back to J... but I said the same about PE, I was happy there too... once.

*sigh*

 

[harvyk]

We've clawed our way from the back of Y to J and Im happy. I tell myself Im happy, we're happy. We perfectly happy in J, its good in J, we're good in J.

But lately.... Ive been thinking, my eye has been wandering. Can we try F just once? Can we actually get The Residence or The Apartments or the Suites, just for a flight, to see what its like, using points of course because financially its out of reach.

Then we will go back to J... but I said the same about PE, I was happy there too... once.

*sigh*

Yeah that first J flight after that first F flight is a strange one. You're getting the great service and yet you're thinking "This is great, but it's not the best the airline has to offer". Where as before J was the pinnacle of travel.

That said, I certainly wouldn't be turning down a J seat if offered.

 

[burmans]

We've clawed our way from the back of Y to J and Im happy. I tell myself Im happy, we're happy. We perfectly happy in J, its good in J, we're good in J.

But lately.... Ive been thinking, my eye has been wandering. Can we try F just once? Can we actually get The Residence or The Apartments or the Suites, just for a flight, to see what its like, using points of course because financially its out of reach.

Then we will go back to J... but I said the same about PE, I was happy there too... once.

*sigh*

Having tasted F I have to say that I'm mostly still happy with J. Yes, the occasional F is nice of course but I find it hard to justify more often than the occasional treat.

 

[OzEire]

So what would replace the existing F space on say, A380s ? More J seats or Y+ for those carriers who don't already have it ?

Is there a case for introducing J+ for all the same reasons Y+ has worked for some airlines? F may be out of reach for a slice of the market who would still pay a bit more for the best J seats (eg mini cabin) with a few extras thrown in. Food for thought.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

So what would replace the existing F space on say, A380s ? More J seats or Y+ for those carriers who don't already have it ?

Is there a case for introducing J+ for all the same reasons Y+ has worked for some airlines? F may be out of reach for a slice of the market who would still pay a bit more for the best J seats (eg mini cabin) with a few extras thrown in. Food for thought.

BA have been doing this for years

 

[Kangol]

Yeah that first J flight after that first F flight is a strange one. You're getting the great service and yet you're thinking "This is great, but it's not the best the airline has to offer". Where as before J was the pinnacle of travel.

That said, I certainly wouldn't be turning down a J seat if offered.

The big difference is in the size of the tray table and having to make your bed up yourself

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So what would replace the existing F space on say, A380s ? More J seats or Y+ for those carriers who don't already have it ?

Is there a case for introducing J+ for all the same reasons Y+ has worked for some airlines? F may be out of reach for a slice of the market who would still pay a bit more for the best J seats (eg mini cabin) with a few extras thrown in. Food for thought.

in EK's case they removed F, made J smaller, and the rest is all economy. Member of the family is flying on the 'new' EK configuration, business class is just a few rows at the back of the upper deck, along with the bar. Everything forward is economy. Guess economy gets huge bathrooms?

 

[andye]

BA have been doing this for years

I thought they did J-

 

[TomVexille]

I thought they did J-

Aaannd J+

 

[harvyk]

The big difference is in the size of the tray table and having to make your bed up yourself

Showers, Private Suites, bigger TV, the included amenities...
There was a difference... Just wish I took Mrs Harvyk on her first J flight before her first F flight.

 

[bwhouse]

If I had to guess I reckon we will continue to see F options diminish, it probably makes sense to have an F cabin on an A380 as it is unlikely to affect the overall yield of the flight that much irrespective if it gets filled with paying customers or people upgrading / point redemption etc. Upgrades and point redemptions also help with loyalty.

But when it comes to smaller aircraft like the 787 and A350 it must be a tougher call for the airlines. We have already seen SQ launch it's first A350 route in a Y,Y+ and J config, not to mention Qatar's and Thai A350 with Y and J config. All airlines that pride themselves in a solid F product on the A380 and larger planes.

Time will tell, but this is one of the reasons I am burning points to try different F products before they potentially disappear or points devalue more due to J product getting better and better.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Guess economy gets huge bathrooms?

But they've put a second toilet & curtain in each

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But they've put a second toilet & curtain in each

Will be interesting to see how they handle disembarking... the upper deck door is located in the middle of the economy cabin. Boarding not so much a problem, but disembarking might be an issue. (The seatguru map incorrectly places the exit in front of row 6 rather than in front of row 34.)

 

[Happy Trails]

Will be interesting to see how they handle disembarking... the upper deck door is located in the middle of the economy cabin. Boarding not so much a problem, but disembarking might be an issue. (The seatguru map incorrectly places the exit in front of row 6 rather than in front of row 34.)

There's a thread on FT with some first hand accounts.

Two Class A380 - disembarking order - FlyerTalk Forums