Wine Rooms - looking for advice/recommendations

[nickfromeastryde]

Mrs Nick is looking at doing some internal renovations soon, nothing major, new floorboards, a couple of walls removed, new french doors etc. Not something I want to do but looking at perhaps a trade off though I haven't yet brought the proposal to the table. We were looking at possibly downsizing when I finished work in the next few years but I think we have both come to the conclusion we like our quarter acre block and the house and garden that comes with it so intention is probably to stay put for hopefully many years to come

Anyway, back on topic, we have an internal room about 5.2 x 5 m2, used to be a dining room but now carries foot traffic from the front of the house to the back and visa versa so pretty much wasted space now. So I'm thinking a wine room / cellar properly enclosed, insulated, cooled, flooring, shelving.... (the works). Thinking I can use most of the room say 5.2 x 3 m2 and come up with something pretty special. I'm not an avid wine collector but I do have ambitions

I'm no expert so I have been using Mr Google and not coming up with much. There seems to be plenty of firms in the US that specialise in this type of service but almost nothing of note in AUS.

Wondering if anyone has actually done this themselves, knows someone I can talk to about getting an idea on design, costings and getting the thing done. I'm based in Syd and at this stage devoid of ideas on how to proceed

Hoping I can pique some interest from the community on what they think

 

[Boris spatsky]

I am renovating this year and adding a 500+ bottle cellar. Only at design stage so far. Subscribed

 

[Steady]

Not a custom fit out but Vintec offer a prefab kit that is 2050mm x 1870mm x 4350mm here - this could be relocated if you do downsize in the future. If you do price one up I would love to know what the going rate is.

There are lots of Aussie retailers of both standard and custom wine racks if you google "wine racks Australia" (most also have temperature control units) if you wanted to do it yourself or have a local builder custom make one for you.

I have been contemplating wine storage - some of my thoughts have been of building a hebel or core filled block room inside an existing shed/room or having a big below ground concrete water tank installed with either side or roof access. I have lots of space and would love to have room to store/hang small goods and preserves in it as well

 

[Whodoesthat]

For what it's worth, I have just finished my cellar storage, walls are insulated concrete form all round with insulated slab for ceiling (whole house is concrete), rear wall subterranean into the hill. Built the racks myself from scratch, which are totally over engineered, and chemset to wall standing on concrete plinths. Currently Storage for 700btl+. Happy with the result. Pics aren't the best but you get the idea.

 

[Steady]

Looks impressive Whodoesthat - what do you mean by "insulated concrete" ?

 

[Whodoesthat]

Steady, Insulated concrete form (ICF). Basically I built the house using ICF blocks, which are 60mm of polystyrene each side joined by spacers, which is then core filled with concrete. Very high insulating properties with gyprock fixed internally and either render of cladding externally.

 

[burmans]

For what it's worth, I have just finished my cellar storage, walls are insulated concrete form all round with insulated slab for ceiling (whole house is concrete), rear wall subterranean into the hill. Built the racks myself from scratch, which are totally over engineered, and chemset to wall standing on concrete plinths. Currently Storage for 700btl+. Happy with the result. Pics aren't the best but you get the idea.

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Looking very nice!

 

[Steady]

Steady, Insulated concrete form (ICF). Basically I built the house using ICF blocks, which are 60mm of polystyrene each side joined by spacers, which is then core filled with concrete. Very high insulating properties with gyprock fixed internally and either render of cladding externally.

Thanks, I was thinking of lining the hebel/core filled concrete blocks with polystyrene and some form of cladding so a similar end result (except the polystyrene would be only on one side with mine)

 

[Daver6]

I'll post details of my cellar either this evening or on the weekend when I get a chance, with details of where I purchased it all from (simply don't recall off the top of my head).

In short though, small room which I added insulation, racks and a cooling unit.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Not a custom fit out but Vintec offer a prefab kit that is 2050mm x 1870mm x 4350mm here - this could be relocated if you do downsize in the future. If you do price one up I would love to know what the going rate is

I saw $15K as the starting price on some Vintec promo page somewhere in the past.

 

[Delectable Blue]

That looks awesome Whodoesthat.

We're just planning what we are going to do when we rebuild our house that was lost in the 2013 Blue Mountains bushfires. I like the idea of the walk-in Vintec transtherm cellar, but AC's cellar has me re-thinking our options. I'm just concerned about temperature control. We don't have a hill we can build into and I'm not sure the BAL-FZ bushfire codes would allow us to use insulated concrete like Whodoesthat. So many decisions...

 

[Steady]

That looks awesome AC.

AC?

Did you mean Whodoesthat

 

[AnonymousCoward]

That looks awesome AC.

We're just planning what we are going to do when we rebuild our house that was lost in the 2013 Blue Mountains bushfires. I like the idea of the walk-in Vintec transtherm cellar, but AC's cellar has me re-thinking our options. I'm just concerned about temperature control. We don't have a hill we can build into and I'm not sure the BAL-FZ bushfire codes would allow us to use insulated concrete like Whodoesthat. So many decisions...

Not my cellar

But if looking at pre-fab, these units appear to be cheaper: Kings Winehaus Cellar Construction. That company also advertises cellar design services.

 

[Delectable Blue]

Not my cellar

But if looking at pre-fab, these units appear to be cheaper: Kings Winehaus Cellar Construction. That company also advertises cellar design services.

Whoops, sorry folks, my eyes are playing tricks on me today. Yes, that should have been Whodoesthat. Although AC I'm sure your cellar is also awesome, at least where it counts.

 

[Radiq]

I have been looking into doing something similar. Have seen some nice results around by people who have used Refrigerated (Cold Room) panels.
They basically have all the insulation you need if you are for example in Queensland, where most the houses have next to no thermal mass.
Chuck a Fondis unit or similar in and plaster board it up to minimise the industrial cold room look. If it's in a walkway use a double glazed Argon filled door so you can view your precious wines as you walk past.

A lot of the ones I have seen were DIY efforts, but you could also just get the cold room built on site if you'd like to avoid that effort. You may also avoid the premium that gets added when you mention the words "Wine Cellar".

 

[burmans]

You may also avoid the premium that gets added when you mention the words "Wine Cellar".

Maybe refer to it as a dungeon instead.

 

[vetrade]

Some people think that wine cellars have to be too cold for optimum wine storage - the ideal constant temp is 55 degrees F, with a range not outside 45 -65. This means many cellars are over-constructed in the belief that concrete all-round is needed. The main thing is you need to be sure that at peak summer temps your wine will stay around that 55 degrees. You will need to consider the orientation of your room to the sun, amount of glass, whether it's "shielded" by an upper floor level etc. I'd guess you would already have an intuitive idea as to how hot the room you are contemplating gets in summer. If it doesn't get really hot some form of polystyrene insulation may well be sufficient. A lot of cellars with artificial cooling really don't need it.

You can have whatever you want because your preference is the only one that really matters but FWIW I think the room you are contemplating is too big. The wines will be (usually) stored around the walls so if the room is too big you can end up with an excess of floor space which can kill the intimacy that great cellars usually have. Even if you have a tasting table in the middle 5m might be too big. Be realistic as to how much wine you want to store - I threw out about 20 doz bottles in stages a few years back because the rate we were drinking never got close to the rate I was accumulating them at, resulting in so much wine which went off. That's really depressing when you've kept some of it for 20+ years! It's damn easy to find a wine you like and think "Gee I'd better get a doz. of that"........and then never get around to drinking it all. It's a temptation I suggest you resist.

I suggest you Google "luxury wine cellars" or sign up to Pinterest and check out the pics - hundreds of ideas so all you need to do is pick out one with the features you like and copy it. IME the specialist commercial suppliers are usually way over priced. A good cabinet maker will be able to duplicate any design you show them.

Edit: You don't your wines exposed to UV light for too long either

 

[Radiq]

Maybe refer to it as a dungeon instead.

If the price of sex toys are anything to go by, the mark up on a home dungeon will make the wine cellar mark up look very affordable.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Some people think that wine cellars have to be too cold for optimum wine storage - the ideal constant temp is 55 degrees F, with a range not outside 45 -65. This means many cellars are over-constructed in the belief that concrete all-round is needed. The main thing is you need to be sure that at peak summer temps your wine will stay around that 55 degrees. You will need to consider the orientation of your room to the sun, amount of glass, whether it's "shielded" by an upper floor level etc. I'd guess you would already have an intuitive idea as to how hot the room you are contemplating gets in summer. If it doesn't get really hot some form of polystyrene insulation may well be sufficient. A lot of cellars with artificial cooling really don't need it.

I've been contemplating this question as well - as I'll be moving to a new place towards the end of this year.

55F is 12.5C if my maths are right - I can't imagine too many non-insulated rooms keeping that low in Australian summers. Even the upper bound of ~18C seems hard to achieve unless the room is underground, or totally isolated from direct sunlight. Maybe I'm overestimating how warm my place is?
Also, if you have an insulated room, but no active cooling, what's your recommendation if the room temp gets too warm? Wouldn't it be hard to vent the heat in that circumstance?

 

[vetrade]

......Also, if you have an insulated room, but no active cooling, what's your recommendation if the room temp gets too warm? Wouldn't it be hard to vent the heat in that circumstance?

You need constant temperature - significant fluctuations either way can cause deterioration. Of course heat is the main risk but even too cold can be a problem e.g. people in colder areas who store their wine in their garage where there is no insulation. That's why it's inadvisable to have whites in an ordinary fridge for too long because the temps in those is often around 4 C. In answer to your question, the room won't get too warm if you have it properly insulated in the first place but if you can't guarantee that then I guess you would have to go for some artificial cooling. If you rely on venting the room to reduce heat then the damage has probably already been done. I have read that even letting your wine get exposed to 45 degrees C in your car when you're taking it home can wreck it.