Should I stay or should I go (EuroZone)

[MEL_Traveller]

If you are going to the UK for work and the countless other benefits, why not pay? I can't think of a good reason why not.

I don't think any rights of passage or learning opportunities are being taken away... Aussies 18-30 can still get a working holiday visa for the UK for 24 months - £225, plus £400 for the medical surcharge. I think that's great value.

 

[marki]

If you are going to the UK for work and the countless other benefits, why not pay? I can't think of a good reason why not.

I don't think any rights of passage or learning opportunities are being taken away... Aussies 18-30 can still get a working holiday visa for the UK for 24 months - £225, plus £400 for the medical surcharge. I think that's great value.

Ah good so not all doom and gloom ....... The way the article was written it looked like another nail in the Eurozone coffin :rolleyes

But just listening to sky news business(today) the Expat has 25-40% failure rate.

 

[marki]

Schengend. (The End of Schengen) Is the new catch phrase the other Schadenfreude ............( pleasure in Schengen) over every Schengen blip – and reminds us of the huge benefits that freedom of mobility has brought to many Europeans. “pleasure in Schengen" still prevails across the Continent: “You'd get the impression that it's almost impossible to travel freely across Europe, but in fact most express and local trains across international borders have been unaffected.”

Manifest destiny

Even if every nation were to reinstate borders, Kate Andrews, co-founder of the rail website Loco2.com, hopes that a 4am knock on the compartment door will not return to haunt travellers: “The suspension of the Schengen zone need not spell disaster for train travel. Most rail operators already require the passenger's name to book a ticket, and others ask for a passport number (for example Trenitalia night trains) or ID for the payment card holder (Deutsche Bahn). So, it would be simple to create a passenger manifest and build a new, more efficient system around it.”


The article is here: http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...d-tape-is-free-movement-history-a6841096.html

I hope Schadenfreude does not come to a "Schengend":mrgreen:

 

[marki]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-spell-near-existential-threat-continent.html


Kerry said

'We are facing the gravest humanitarian crisis in Europe since World War II,' he said at the Munich Security Conference, which has been dominated by the Syrian conflict which is driving the mass flight.

'The United States understands the near existential nature of this threat to the politics and fabric of life in Europe,' he told the meeting.



I hope they sort themselves out getting ridiculous really.

 

[marki]

A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

Read the full story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html

Another Tanti

 

[marki]

Peter Wittig the German Ambassador living in the US was stating " those who want to stay in Germany must adhere to our laws and respect our values". Good luck with that! Germany has accepted a huge population whose values are completely opposite of yours. Does Germany have some magical powers unknown to the rest of humanity that will totally revamp people's deepest and most dearly held beliefs?
In 10 years Germans will look back and see this as a turning point for their country-not because they took in so many refugees, but that the refugees they accepted don't share anything in common with them, and their future children won't either( take a look at France). How many examples of Muslim non-integration do Western countries need before they face the reality that it doesn't work?

 

[marki]

We can expect Isil or other terrorist groups to stage an attack in Europe, warns Rob Wainwright, the British head of Europol, the EU’s police agency

Up to 5,000 jihadists could be at large in Europe after training with Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil), the EU’s police chief has warned.

Europol estimates the number of EU citizens who have slipped back after training in the Middle East as between 3,000 and 5,000, Rob Wainwright, the British head of Europol, the EU’s police agency, said.

“Europe is currently facing the highest terror threat in more than ten years.” Mr Wainwright said.

"We can expect Isil or other religious terror groups to stage an attack somewhere in Europe with the aim of achieving mass casualties among the civilian population"
Rob Wainwright, the British head of Europol

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ed-jihadists-could-be-at-large-in-Europe.html

Something to look forward to in our travels to Europe thanks to Merkel's poor decision making .

 

[JohnK]

How many examples of Muslim non-integration do Western countries need before they face the reality that it doesn't work?

Most people know it doesn't work. Unfortunately civil libertarians don't get it and for an overwhelming minority they scream the loudest.

 

[Abdul_A350]

Most people know it doesn't work. Unfortunately civil libertarians don't get it and for an overwhelming minority they scream the loudest.

Please define "it".

 

[Franky]

Please define "it".

Let me spell it out for you - 'Muslim integration'

 

[Abdul_A350]

Let me spell it out for you - 'Muslim integration'

I see. So your claim is that Muslims cannot be integrated into society and so, um, what exactly?

 

[feezable]

I have been an advocate for opening our borders and sharing our good fortune to live in Australia. I was not being blind to the issues this would cause, but rather hoping that if we would help each other humanity would have a better future. This video (USA-centric) has made me reassess my ideas and i now see how naive I was
Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs - NumbersUSA.com - ... https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...uS_0WDIKhyD5AoJRg&sig2=xNjQAn9NPlidQWi4Z9nG2A

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

Here's a useful link link from the BBC which highlights the issues of the debate along with illustrating which side of the fence various British MP's and members of the House of Lords are campaigning "for" or " against" the upcoming UK referendum of EU membership.

A noticeable figure for the "leave" campaign who has just declared his hand is the Out-going London Mayor Boris Johnson.

As a UK passport holder myself I will be following the discussion closely and dispite the referendum being a few months out, I predict the result is going to be tight!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

 

[Franky]

I see. So your claim is that Muslims cannot be integrated into society and so, um, what exactly?

I think many would say it is not a matter of 'cannot' but more a question of whether they want to or not, or in fact do so.

 

[Abdul_A350]

I think many would say it is not a matter of 'cannot' but more a question of whether they want to or not, or in fact do so.

A percentage of incomers will always struggle. Just as a percentage of people who became Australian earlier -- by birth, or by arriving sooner -- will call Christian Lebanese 'Muslims', Iranians 'Arabs, and all sorts of peoples 'Pakis'. And of course many misunderstandings about Islam itself.

Both percentages influence each other. The more hostile the "welcome", the harder to adapt.

Meanwhile those of us wanting to move here only need to satisfy what the government requires of us, and hope that the latter (ignorant) percentage does not factor too much into the government's thinking. Respecting the right to an opinion and respecting the opinion itself (and the lack of knowledge on which it is based) are entirely different things. As an educated adult it is easy for me to see through the ignorance. But I do worry more about how the tone of debate affects younger, less-educated people in their formative years. Children generally do not choose to be or become the children of immigrants.

 

[drron]

Even if Britain votes to leave the EU will the EU,political hierarchy,business and bankers let them leave.

 

[Franky]

A percentage of incomers will always struggle. Just as a percentage of people who became Australian earlier -- by birth, or by arriving sooner -- will call Christian Lebanese 'Muslims', Iranians 'Arabs, and all sorts of peoples 'Pakis'. And of course many misunderstandings about Islam itself.

Both percentages influence each other. The more hostile the "welcome", the harder to adapt.

Meanwhile those of us wanting to move here only need to satisfy what the government requires of us, and hope that the latter (ignorant) percentage does not factor too much into the government's thinking. Respecting the right to an opinion and respecting the opinion itself (and the lack of knowledge on which it is based) are entirely different things. As an educated adult it is easy for me to see through the ignorance. But I do worry more about how the tone of debate affects younger, less-educated people in their formative years. Children generally do not choose to be or become the children of immigrants.

You may well be right. However, I base my opinion on the reality that I see from both personal experience and general knowledge.

 

[JohnK]

You may well be right. However, I base my opinion on the reality that I see from both personal experience and general knowledge.

In my experience people would rather call you a liar than believe your personal experiences. Unfortunately I can't unsee what my eyes have seen. Extremely sad.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Personal experience is "this happened to me". It's not subject to argument.
However when you move to "this happened to me and it means something about this general issue" that goes beyond personal experience.
There is room for discussion and even argument about the wider meaning of anyone's personal experiences.
Problems with integration in France go back decades, to the aftermath of French colonialism in Africa and the Algerian war.
They are at least partly due to a failure of government policy.
I am less familiar with the history of immigration in other European countries.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but I do know the problem is complex and the answers aren't simple.
Blaming one group or another isn't helpful.
To generalise about any group on the basis of race or religion (etc) is quite simply bigotry.
Invoking personal experience doesn't change that.
The strength of Europe has always been its diversity.
And Islam has been a part of that diversity for centuries. It's not a new arrival.
Incidentally Moorish Andalusia was a tolerant, diverse multicultural society where Christians and Jews had religious freedom at a time when Christian Europe was persecuting Jews.
Sadly that came to an end with the unification of Spain under Catholic monarchs.
Only the wonderful Moorish architecture survives.

 

[Abdul_A350]

In my experience people would rather call you a liar than believe your personal experiences. Unfortunately I can't unsee what my eyes have seen. Extremely sad.

I believe you are sad. It is important not to become an extremist in your extrapolation from personal experiences, though. Just as it is important not to assume that all people are as ignorant as some of the most vocal.