P1 Fail

[trippin_the_rift]

I'm not weighing into the specifics of this debate but the SST do get it right more times than not

Upgrade bribery only works for so long.
Personally, I would take a flawless, consistent system over free upgrades every day of the week.

 

[kermatu]

Upgrade bribery only works for so long.
Personally, I would take a flawless, consistent system over free upgrades every day of the week.

Agree. But if the odd free upgrade was consistently applied to all members, that wouldn't go astray...

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Of course this is a case of DYKWIA....he is a top tier WP1 and should be treated as such. In the small world of QF he is top of the status food chain - so much so that QF added WP1 to recognise the status above regular WP flyers so that they could go the extra mile and provide amazing service and benefits (as the marketing would have you believe).

How dare a WP1 pipe up and state he is unhappy about something regarding QF handling of his issue - tall poppy eh? Why so much fuss? Put up with it!

This is about raising the bar of expectations with service received by all PAX, especially those with their own customer service team, and all those claiming DYKWIA syndrome miss the point completely. I will happily defend QF when they are doing great things but generally when it comes to service received and being proactive they are consistent at falling well short.

 

[UP4014]

After reading through (most but not all) of these posts, wouldn't it be good if we lived in the perfect world. However there are many shades of grey and many do not understand this, some even on AFF as hard as that is to accept.

The company I work for has 20 customers only, we like to think they all get good service but things still fall over even with only 20 customers. But they all know if they complain about nothing stuff then the next time they need something on a Sunday morning at 3am it just ain't going happen as things aren't black and white and perfect.

Matt

 

[Mrmaxwell]

But they all know if they complain about nothing stuff then the next time they need something on a Sunday morning at 3am it just ain't going happen as things aren't black and white and perfect.

Matt

"She'll be right mate. Stop complaining otherwise we won't assist when you really need us."

Glad I do not rely on you for service.

 

[JessicaTam]

I am fairly sure that I have not sat in a 747 Y seat since the 380 came into service. I don't fly QF longhaul that often, so not a large sample to draw from. But I am with the OP on this one. They are very different total packages.

 

[andye]

"She'll be right mate. Stop complaining otherwise we won't assist when you really need us."

Glad I do not rely on you for service.

That is only fair comment if the overnight delivery is part of the advertised service rather than an above and beyond favour to a valued customer (which is what I think the poster meant).
I have little knowledge of P1 but it would seem to portray itself as the above and beyond being the expectation.

 

[dfcatch]

Yes I can. (Opusman - tell which flights are A380)

And I specifically select my TPAC flights based on exactly this.

There is also a dedicated A380 webpage on the website that specifically advertises the A380, the cabins, the service, and the schedule.

 

[dfcatch]

I doubt there are 400 P1s on any flight. No need for 400 simultaneous calls. The P1service team are supposed to be there to look after P1 members not other passengers. Other passengers are looked after by other parts of Qantas.

Thank you Medhead.

This is one AFF thread where I am totally unable to disagree with you.

(Which disappoints me, as sparring with you is more fun than Xbox

 

[dfcatch]

It is one thing for the OP to ring up and tell the SST that he was unhappy with the aircraft change and ask to be moved to a different flight. I agree that is something that QF should offer to WP1, on request.

It is completely another thing for the OP to expect the SST to anticipate and proactively deal with him being unhappy with the aircraft change when the aircraft type was the only thing that changed. I think that is expecting way too much and is simply unreasonable.

Are you P1?

Do you regularly fly TPAC? On QF?

 

[pjm99au]

It is completely another thing for the OP to expect the SST to anticipate and proactively deal with him being unhappy with the aircraft change when the aircraft type was the only thing that changed. I think that is expecting way too much and is simply unreasonable.

I think herein lies the problem I don't think it is unreasonable.At P1 level the number base is low enough to provide a tailored service and most P1's have an expectation of getting one.

Qantas in my observation doesn't really understand the individual wants, needs or desires of it most frequent / valuable FF nor does make any real effort to.

Given the relatively small number of P1's QF can and should be talking to them individually about what's important to them as a customer and tailoring its individual support service to suit. It would then learn that my individual needs as a predominantly Y domestic traveller are much different to a P1 that flies F to Europe 6 times a year and nothing else. We both put the same revenue through QF but the impact of changes and service failures is felt in Y much more than in higher classes

In the context of this topic my need to get the seat I want in Y is vastly more important to me than the F P1 and as such I feel it more when there is a forced change. The business should be smart enough to recognise this and prioritise its response.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Yes I can. (Opusman - tell which flights are A380)

And I specifically select my TPAC flights based on exactly this.

There is also a dedicated A380 webpage on the website that specifically advertises the A380, the cabins, the service, and the schedule.

I consider the OP had an actual disuption and inconvenience.

There is a big difference between 32A on a 388 and 43A on a 744 (side storage for example).

Just a quick question re the seating dfcatch. I take it you had an aircraft type change alert with Expert Flyer or something similar if you knew about the schedule change before the airline did?

When you did find out had you automatically been reassigned 43A or whatever your actual seat was? Would this have been your seat of choice had the a/c type been a 744 from the get go?

 

[medhead]

Well I did only mention that one small thing. I may, or may not, have other, unexpressed thoughts that we could disagree about.

We probably need to talk about multi-quoting in the app. It was possible in the test version just touch each post that you want to quote to select them.

Thank you Medhead.

This is one AFF thread where I am totally unable to disagree with you.

(Which disappoints me, as sparring with you is more fun than Xbox 

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I should disclose the OP has reached out to me to create a script/program that would solve the problem of being moved to a ****ty seat.
If I can fix the problem with a few days of programming - what does it say about a department/s that has known about this problem for YEARS, has near unlimited resources and access to all the data it could ever need? I call this a massive failure.

fyi: if anyone else is interested in a service that will automatically select & move you to the best seat possible - every time, even after aircraft swaps and will do it before QF has a chance to take any action; shoot me a PM. It won't be free but it will do what SST cannot.

So what really is the "best seat"? Sure you might have a seat request in your profile for an aisle or a window however it's a moveable feast for many as there will always be heaps of other factors involved when it comes to seat selection eg below:

On a 744 I may prefer a window seat in the second row of two down the back, but only when I don't have an onward connection (in case it takes longer to go through US Customs). However I only want 71K if the a/c is the old 4 class config 14P/52J/32W/255Y ie VH-OEB or VH-OJM. I would like 70K if the a/c is the 3 class config 58J/36W/270Y config.

If I do have an onward connection then I may want 44A but then I mightn't if there is already a pax in both 44B&C, however if only a pax in 44C I may take the chance that 44B will be a shadow and select that seat but only if the flight isn't chockers.

Those requirements are all very subjective and as such almost impossible to write a code or script for. A bit like the Calvin Klein ad Christy Turlington did for their fragrance Contradiction - "I'm just a simple complicated woman."

 

[dfcatch]

Just a quick question re the seating dfcatch. I take it you had an aircraft type change alert with Expert Flyer or something similar if you knew about the schedule change before the airline did?

When you did find out had you automatically been reassigned 43A or whatever your actual seat was? Would this have been your seat of choice had the a/c type been a 744 from the get go?

EF Aircraft Change Alert came through around 3 hours later.

Being in Y, I watch EF like a fat kid at the donut shop. Around 6 hours earlier I noticed something odd with the F cabin, and the seat map disappeared (like the behaviour of a non-F aircraft). Then later in the day I saw that QF11 had suddenly been withdrawn from sale and the seat map for the F cabin was empty - even though it was still showing as a 388.

I emailed P1 just querying if everything with the flight was ok and that it was still a 388.

After getting no response, and then noticing QF93 suddenly fill up in all classes (dramatically compared with earlier in the day), as well as seeing QF17 and 15 get withdrawn from sale, my spidey senses knew immediately what was happening. I called P1 and they advised that they had received a note advising that the aircraft would change, that Res were managing it, that P1 had no access to the new seat map, and couldn't do anything until such time. They also indicated that they had NFI if was going to be contacted nor when (and that they weren't doing anything). They offered to let me know as soon as the flight officially got changed to a 747 and would try and find a decent-ish seat. They offered no alternate options, I had to present them all (including alternate flights such as 93/17/15 or deferring my travel to the following day).

After P1 got visibility of the aircraft they called and we took 43C as the best of bad options.

Seat of choice - good question..??

Honest answer - I wouldn't have chosen to fly QF Y on a 747 - period. I would have chosen another airline if I had to fly that day. Truth is when the booking was made I was flexible across the entire week and chose that flight, on that day, specifically based on the fact that it was a 388 with a suitable seat available (all checked prior to booking).

If the cabin was empty - and I HAD to fly on it - I would have chosen an exit row probably...... but like I said - I wouldn't be on that aircraft in that cabin by choice.

Ultimately - if P1 had have contacted me earlier in the process, more options would have been feasible, and in the worst case I could have rearranged my plans in Los Angeles and simply would have flown a day later.

 

[RichardMEL]

Obviously that is how one can tell the aircraft type. Same as with domestic you can tell if it's a 737 or a 320.

But they are clearly not sold as different products.

Exactly....
and 99% of pax (I'd wager) don't give a cough (or worry about the difference). it could say 737 doing MEL-LAX and it wouldn't mean a thing.

I do not call moving the mouse over a flight number to bring up the detailed flight info "advertising a specific product" - I call it information. The majority of people flying care about 2 things - price and schedule (and which trumps which depends on specific situations).

Some airlines do hilight specific aircraft openly (eg: JQ have a"Dreamliner" tag for 787 flights that shows up on the schedule page. I think NH do too, or used to). QF do not.

 

[RichardMEL]

Part of SST job is monitoring flights of P1s. The whole propose of this tier is personal service, regardless of how major the disruption is. There should not be such excuses as "too busy" at this level.

I know the good people in SST are capable of providing an excellent service in situations like the OP's but this time it was a clear case of service fail.

yes they are, but as the OP himself repoted, when he phoned them they didn't seem to be aware of it - which is part of his point that the a/c change wasn't flagged to them - with that in mind it's not really a P1 fail in the extent of expectation of being called proactively to ask if that pesky 747 is OK or not when they don't know.. the problem lies elsewhere in the QF system. In the case of irrops like this these things can, and obviously did, happen. You imagine 400+ pax are affected <24 hours before a flight it prob goes under control of specific departments (res, airport control, whatever). I'm not excusing the SST for how follow ups were or were not managed once alerted to the issue (for the OP), but blaming them for not being proactive seems pretty rough if they don't have the information in the first place.

Having had a comp P1 upgrade (the first ever in 3 years as an aside) for a MEL-BNE flight recently clearly they DO monitor P1's flights as, best can tell, the switch was made around 23h prior to flight time (I may have been looking at the EF seat map ). However that was in regular operations and nothing about that flight changed. And I thank them very kindly for the unexpected op up

 

[dfcatch]

Exactly....
and 99% of pax (I'd wager) don't give a cough (or worry about the difference). it could say 737 doing MEL-LAX and it wouldn't mean a thing.

I do not call moving the mouse over a flight number to bring up the detailed flight info "advertising a specific product" - I call it information. The majority of people flying care about 2 things - price and schedule (and which trumps which depends on specific situations).

Some airlines do hilight specific aircraft openly (eg: JQ have a"Dreamliner" tag for 787 flights that shows up on the schedule page. I think NH do too, or used to). QF do not.

Know what you're talking about before making definitive statements.

The answers are all provided up thread.

But - specifically to your point - the A380 IS specifically advertised by QF, as are the routes and schedules so that pax can specifically book the aircraft. The A380 is the only aircraft in the fleet that is advertised in this manner and has its own dedicated webpage.

Of course - it's subject to change. The T&Cs cover that.

The reasonable argument that has been put forward by others is that an aircraft change is not a "disruption" or a "downgrade".

My argument says it is.

Fair issue for contention in individual opinions.

BUT - the A380 IS advertised and promoted in a manner that no other aircraft in the fleet is.

So NO - you can't compare it to any other aircraft swap/downgrade situation.

(Oh - and most people don't give a cough. Most people also aren't P1. Most people also aren't offered / promised a service level which proactively monitors their travel and manages disruptions).

This thread isn't about what most people do or do not care about when hovering their mouse on a fare purchase screen.

 

[RichardMEL]

I think you have it around the wrong way.
When you're a top customer with any business - it shouldn't be your job to chase up anything. By P1/SST not pro-actively monitoring the changes I view this as not doing their job and is entirely unsatisfactory. Even more so when the change negatively impacts on the customer experience.

except you seemed to miss the part of the OP's own narrative that the SST did not appear to even KNOW the sub had happened when he phoned them.....

It is still a QF issue to be sure, but less an SST one I should think.

How they followed up tthough is another issue.

IMHO anyway.

 

[wandering_fred]

EF Aircraft Change Alert came through around 3 hours later.
...
I called P1 and they advised that they had received a note advising that the aircraft would change, that Res were managing it, that P1 had no access to the new seat map, and couldn't do anything until such time. They also indicated that they had NFI if was going to be contacted nor when (and that they weren't doing anything). They offered to let me know as soon as the flight officially got changed to a 747 and would try and find a decent-ish seat. They offered no alternate options, I had to present them all (including alternate flights such as 93/17/15 or deferring my travel to the following day).
After P1 got visibility of the aircraft they called and we took 43C as the best of bad options.
...
Ultimately - if P1 had have contacted me earlier in the process, more options would have been feasible, and in the worst case I could have rearranged my plans in Los Angeles and simply would have flown a day later.

Hey Red Roo - there's the fail in the QF system. Either your P1s are your most valuable customers or they are not.

If I were planning on spending the $$ to get more than 2400 SC on QF and the excess elsewhere and this offered a guarantee of better handling during irregular operations by the dedicated P1 support team, I would expect the system to hand irregular operations support for P1s to that team BEFORE starting the cleanup of the rest of the passengers.

My comment about Cathay diamonds and Cathay irrop support made earlier still stands. Please consider.
And it now appears (I know I'm not on the board) that if QF wants to properly support the long haul schedule that currently is in place, another (or two) A380s should seriously be contemplated. Consider what properly support means.

Happy wandering

Fred