Airlines, please turn off the main lights on night flights

[Melburnian1]

Some AFFers such as drron say that they avoid night flights. This can be a challenge on many routes into Oz because the number of day flights is limited, with airlines often mainly scheduling flights that arrive in SYD, MEL, BNE, CNS or ADL early in the morning from 0500 to 0800.

AFF member ReLoad made a comment in the QF A330s to get lie flat seating thread that is relevant to many airlines, so I have taken the liberty of creating a new thread.

On night flights, I have never understood why cabin crew cannot turn off all the lights and serve meals and drinks with passengers switching on individually controlled reading lights if they want to eat, or the cabin having minimal lighting. No doubt some OH & S consultant would claim 'it's a safety issue' but on night trains and coaches throughout the world, passengers and staff manage and sleep is encouraged by little or no lighting.

Many passengers find it impossible to sleep with bright fluro lights shining. There may be many reasons for travelling in J but surely it negates some of the experience of a flat bed and desire to (as one airline says) 'arrive in better shape' if the lights are on for say five hours of a seven hour journey.

Have any members come across airlines that are excellent at switching off lights (either totally or largely i.e. dimming) on flights to and from southeast Asia?

On MH, PR and SQ, the lights tend to be off for about four hours, better than the 'two hours' that ReLoad describes for QF. Yet this is still a long way short of say six hours.

 

[kevrosmith]

I always thought that if I was on a flight and my aim was to sleep, then I'd wear eye-shades and ear-plugs. Is this not common practice?

 

[clazman]

CX dim their lights

 

[juddles]

Apart from meal service times, I thought most airlines turn off the lights??

In the 80's transpacific flights were for me effectively a bar-in-the-air, with pax consuming copious alcohol and chatting and having fun (and smoking) the whole flight. Now it seems that carriers can not turn the lights off quick enough, with everyone getting a hot chocolate to help them off to sleepys. I thought that was the norm.

 

[Denali]

On night flights, I have never understood why cabin crew cannot turn off all the lights and serve meals and drinks with passengers switching on individually controlled reading lights if they want to eat, or the cabin having minimal lighting...

Good grief, I can imagine the "I was sleeping and a FA woke me" or "my seat mate turned on his light" complaints. I would have thought the FAs have enough to do pampering to the masses without having to wander aisles in the dark, offering food and drinks to those they think are awake and then having to hear the complaints when people wake up to find out they missed out on rubber chicken and rice.

Eye mask and head phones is my advise.

 

[medhead]

I'm struggling to think of a Qantas route (in reference to the other thread) on which the lights would be on for 5 hours of a 7 hour flight.

I'd also note that on sleeper trains the pax have their own private cabin allowing them to do whatever they wish with the lights. The staff still walk up and down outside the cabin in full light. On night buses, do they offer a trolley meal service? I expect the safety issue on a bus is to minimise internal lighting that might distract the driver. As such both are different situations that hardly offer an argument about WHS on an aircraft.

 

[ReLoad]

I'm struggling to think of a Qantas route (in reference to the other thread) on which the lights would be on for 5 hours of a 7 hour flight.

I'd also note that on sleeper trains the pax have their own private cabin allowing them to do whatever they wish with the lights. The staff still walk up and down outside the cabin in full light. On night buses, do they offer a trolley meal service? I expect the safety issue on a bus is to minimise internal lighting that might distract the driver. As such both are different situations that hardly offer an argument about WHS on an aircraft.

QF 36 comes damn close. May not be 5 hours but it is not far off.

With the brilliant seat lighting in the new J cabin, they could easily not turn on the J cabin lighting at all!

 

[medhead]

QF 36 comes damn close. May not be 5 hours but it is not far off.

With the brilliant seat lighting in the new J cabin, they could easily not turn on the J cabin lighting at all!

I'll see next week. But with an 8 pm departure, I think QF36 is not exactly in the late night flight category. I'm not yet in the category of wondering if I can stay awake when starting to watch a movie at 8pm.

 

[dajop]

On MH, PR and SQ, the lights tend to be off for about four hours, better than the 'two hours' that ReLoad describes for QF. Yet this is still a long way short of say six hours.

On the 9pm wave of flights to Australia, SQ does a full meal service and lights are only off for about four hours as you point out. On the midnight wave they do a supper service and lights are very quickly, not sure what time they turn them on. In the other direction the midnight departures also have supper service and lights are off for more or less the whole journey (at least that was the case a few years ago, when I last took such a flight).

 

[ReLoad]

I'll see next week. But with an 8 pm departure, I think QF36 is not exactly in the late night flight category. I'm not yet in the category of wondering if I can stay awake when starting to watch a movie at 8pm.

I reckon you have nailed it with the departure time.

I think it's more with a 5am arrival time, the turning them on 2 hours before landing. I reckon that's the nonsense.

And as Kevrosmith suggests it's all about eye shades and good earplugs/noise cancellers.

I recommend the Emirates eye shades the best. The QF ones are a bit flimsy in comparison.

 

[yohy?!]

not really safe for the cabin crew to be doing a supper service in darkness,

best to follow others suggestions and block out light and noise and use medication in appropriate (or just fly J)

 

[Mattg]

Agreed, it is very annoying when the lights aren't dimmed or switched off at night. If I'm on a plane, and it's night time, I either want to sleep, or perhaps watch a movie. If I want light, I'll use the overhead light.

Another thing that annoys me is when airlines announce they'll be dimming the lights ahead of a night-time take-off, then don't. You can't see anything out the window if the lights are on!

 

[dodgeyhack]

I always thought that if I was on a flight and my aim was to sleep, then I'd wear eye-shades and ear-plugs. Is this not common practice?

Have you tried putting eye shades on a toddler!

We had a pretty hellish flight back from NZ on EK for exactly this reason - lights were left full ball the whole way back.
Eventually we got her to sleep and then put shades on but it was hard work!

 

[JohnK]

One of the easiest things in life is to condition yourself to sleep under pressure.

Not that difficult to sleep upright with lights on and noise around you.

 

[Mr_Orange]

(or just fly J)

Doesn't help on QF ex-Asia where the J service takes forever and the lights are fully on.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'd also note that on sleeper trains the pax have their own private cabin allowing them to do whatever they wish with the lights. The staff still walk up and down outside the cabin in full light. On night buses, do they offer a trolley meal service? I expect the safety issue on a bus is to minimise internal lighting that might distract the driver. As such both are different situations that hardly offer an argument about WHS on an aircraft.

Yes, they are different modes of transport, but many night trains throughout the world have economy, first class and in some countries even third class seats at night. Where trains have buffet cars, passengers can easily manage to make their way through a dark carriage (with vestibules lit by the doors, typically - a bit like airline galleys are lit) and obtain food (including hot drinks) and bring it back without spilling it on other passengers.

not really safe for the cabin crew to be doing a supper service in darkness,

best to follow others suggestions and block out light and noise and use medication in appropriate (or just fly J)

Some coaches have screens around the driver to minimise light intrusion.

If SQ can serve passengers 'supper' in a darkened cabin and do so safely, why can't QF and others? Is this yet another negative result of union power that unfortunately is so common in Australia's larger industry sectors?

Aircraft cabins are never completely dark. There are always the lit signs every few rows, and some passengers will inevitably be reading whatever the hour, or if the airline has seatback or tablet IFE, watching or listening to programs, all of which creates some light in the cabin.

And no, I don't like eyeshades. One is conscious that they are being worn. We don't wear them at home, or on night trains or coaches.

 

[medhead]

Yes, they are different modes of transport, but many night trains throughout the world have economy, first class and in some countries even third class seats at night. Where trains have buffet cars, passengers can easily manage to make their way through a dark carriage (with vestibules lit by the doors, typically - a bit like airline galleys are lit) and obtain food (including hot drinks) and bring it back without spilling it on other passengers.

As I wrote, the pax on night trains are in their own cabins where they can turn off the lights while people walk outside the cabin in full light. The analogy fails since there is no need for passengers to be staggering around in the dark.

I taken a few night trains including a 3rd class, 6 berth couchette - Cabin no lights, corridor lights

 

[Pushka]

Have you tried putting eye shades on a toddler!

We had a pretty hellish flight back from NZ on EK for exactly this reason - lights were left full ball the whole way back.
Eventually we got her to sleep and then put shades on but it was hard work!

That is just a three hour flight though? Leaving at 6pm for all cities. I wouldn't want the lights out for that.

 

[Melburnian1]

As I wrote, the pax on night trains are in their own cabins where they can turn off the lights while people walk outside the cabin in full light. The analogy fails since there is no need for passengers to be staggering around in the dark.

I taken a few night trains including a 3rd class, 6 berth couchette - Cabin no lights, corridor lights

medhead, what you ought have written is 'some passengers on night trains are in their own cabins' because others sit up all night on seats (although sleeping is possible, especially if one has what airline passengers call a 'shadow.')

Analogies do not prove anything, but they do give examples of how (in this case) two other modes better facilitate sleep (and I'm comparing sitting passengers on trains and coaches with Y economy class air passengers.)

The strongest argument is that if SQ can do it, why can't other airlines on Oz - southeast Asia - Oz night or late evening flights?

 

[yohy?!]

Yes, they are different modes of transport, but many night trains throughout the world have economy, first class and in some countries even third class seats at night. Where trains have buffet cars, passengers can easily manage to make their way through a dark carriage (with vestibules lit by the doors, typically - a bit like airline galleys are lit) and obtain food (including hot drinks) and bring it back without spilling it on other passengers.



Some coaches have screens around the driver to minimise light intrusion.

If SQ can serve passengers 'supper' in a darkened cabin and do so safely, why can't QF and others? Is this yet another negative result of union power that unfortunately is so common in Australia's larger industry sectors?

Aircraft cabins are never completely dark. There are always the lit signs every few rows, and some passengers will inevitably be reading whatever the hour, or if the airline has seatback or tablet IFE, watching or listening to programs, all of which creates some light in the cabin.

And no, I don't like eyeshades. One is conscious that they are being worn. We don't wear them at home, or on night trains or coaches.

Sq do not serve in darkened cabins or at least never have as I have seen...nor have any other major carrier which is really the right move. Moving a heavy cart through a darkened cabin is not a good idea, imagine if someone fell asleep with an arm in the aisle!

Suggest you investigate medication either pharmaceuticals or from your friendly bartender