QF disgrace

[howiesue]

As a QF Gold for Life member now retired, I recently tried to see what I could do about a return flight Brisbane to London on Qantas with my FF points. Sadly, Economy at 128,000 points (painful when business class was my general method of travel!) was dumped as $997.00 (!) in taxes was demanded. An email to Qantas asking why so much in fees/taxes did not generate a reply for over 3 weeks and even then the answer was marketing "fluff" - heavy taxes at London, ticketing and other costs, etc. When I called and said that surely these costs were involved in a purchased ticket too (which could be purchased for less that $500 more) the Qantas employee agreed with me that it didn't make sense!

So I then look at purchasing a ticket on which I can upgrade using points and, in my research, I find a return Emirates flight BNE - DXB - LHR for $1600.00 approx return (probably can't upgrade using points on this?). But then, and here is the rub, I find that Qantas offer the same journey (USING EXACTLY THE SAME FLIGHTS/PLANES/TIMETABLE) for over $600 more! Again, an email to Qantas FF dept to see if this was a mistake (which at least got me a return phone call 2 weeks later) generated a reply that Qantas have a multi-billion $$ loss to recoup! The Qantas employee that called me was not in the slightest way interested in trying to retain me as a customer - "take it or leave it" was very much the attitude.

Recoup? This tactic will surely drive potential travellers away so how do they plan to recoup service/losses?

As a long-time user of QF before I retired I was always proud to use them. This is the straw that has broken the camel's back for me. Loyalty has truly vanished from Qantas' vocabulary it would appear.

But this brings me to my next question - Can QF FF points be used on other OneWorld airlines to either purchase tickets or upgrade? Any members' suggestions please?

 

[UP4014]

More than the loss to recoup.

PM - Qantas share holders approve $2.5 million bonus for Alan Joyce 24/10/2014


But seriously, overheads are higher and expectations QF standards are even higher. I baulk at reward tickets myself but now I have accepted QF's attitude of take it or leave I sometimes take it and sometimes leave it. And I am much happier now I have accepted my low position on the ladder.


Matt

 

[NM]

But this brings me to my next question - Can QF FF points be used on other OneWorld airlines to either purchase tickets or upgrade?

Yes they can be used for flight redemptions, but those redemptions will still include QF's excessive carrier-imposed surcharges. Some flight redemptions have lower excess charges than others, such as Australia/NZ domestic flights and USA domestic flights.

No, QFF points cannot be used to upgrade flights operated by other airlines (there are a few specific exemptions to this, but not many).

 

[Limewood]

I'd be thinking more about buying an upgradable Y from OZ to ASIA and use points for award J to Europe or vice versa.

I'm in same boat, don't travel much now but still rack up good chunk on QFF points PA, so will build them up so we both can do a world trip in J, in meantime we buy miles and go in J long haul that way.

 

[JohnK]

Ah yes. The never ending story of Qantas ever increasing fuel surcharges.

 

[samh004]

While I agree that sometimes the taxes on award flights really highlight the bad state of awards within the program, I'm not sure what use LTG would be to you if they reduced their fees to a level where they ceased to operate. You'd then have a card that was completely useless.

 

[rossma]

Qantas does not care much about passengers............

 

[samh004]

Qantas does not care much about passengers............

Welcome to AFF, I see you registered just to say that... I've experienced the opposite.

 

[moa999]

As a QF Gold for Life member now retired, I recently tried to see what I could do about a return flight Brisbane to London on Qantas with my FF points. Sadly, Economy at 128,000 points (painful when business class was my general method of travel!) was dumped as $997.00 (!) in taxes was demanded.

Been that way for a long time. Basically means Economy International awards don't make sense - they are bad value relatively. The J/F awards are better value - best however is using points for upgrades or the oneworld multiple flights fares.

So I then look at purchasing a ticket on which I can upgrade using points and, in my research, I find a return Emirates flight BNE - DXB - LHR for $1600.00 approx return (probably can't upgrade using points on this?).

Correct you can't upgrade EK metal, only QF metal, QF code

But then, and here is the rub, I find that Qantas offer the same journey (USING EXACTLY THE SAME FLIGHTS/PLANES/TIMETABLE) for over $600 more! Again, an email to Qantas FF dept to see if this was a mistake (which at least got me a return phone call 2 weeks later) generated a reply that Qantas have a multi-billion $$ loss to recoup!

Pretty poor reason from a QF Rep.
This is often the case with codeshare fares as:
1. Unless the airlines have agreement from the relevant competition authorities to consolidate selling etc - it would be illegal to talk to ge the same prices
2. If the codesharing airline 'owns' the seats (eg. like QF/LA - they may sell out of given fare buckets before the others)
3. The metal owner may not make available the absolute cheapest fare bucket to codeshare partners (or often travel agents) to encourage people to book wth them direct

The world of codeshares is a complex beast

 

[N860CR]

If you've got points to burn, availability in business is better on CX and EK. CX product is very good. See if you can redeem on them, try searching other EU ports if LHR isn't available.

 

[Alanslegal]

Qantas is making a mint selling points to anyone who wants to add it to their business model eg Woolworths

Qantas knows there are 10,000,000 members out there so they don't give a toss about the former WP now low time LTG who wants to use points

Qantas continues to tax/levy/surcharge the hell out award bookings - and they do not care if a dozen people come onto AFF to complain because there will be 50x the number who just suck it up and book and pay $1,000 in taxes even when flying economy

Qantas laughs out loud and has a grin bigger than Luna Park's when members use their points to buy Russell Hobb Toasters

Qantas loves kissing the toes of their uber-frequent flyers like P1's but that's expected .Good luck to the 99% of members who aren't P1s.

Qantas loves to make it 'Feel Like Home' and I totally agree. It is home when you don't want to pay $1,000 in surcharges and don't travel anywhere.

I tell you what isn't a disgrace? Qantas and Emirates sharing the same bed because thankfully I have blown the remaining 400,000 points I had and booked some nice flights on EK metal. Don't ask me about the surcharges/taxes that I paid on those four flights because it will truly blow your brains away.

 

[juddles]

......... bonus for Alan Joyce.......

I don't want to get into an argument, as I am not an expert in running airlines, but I perceive a change in Qantas that reassures me they may still be flying in a few years. That was not a certainty. So if this guy "Alan" is responsible for me still being able to choose Qantas, I am not unhappy with him.

BTW, I hate FF point ticket redemption charges.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As a QF Gold for Life member now retired, I recently tried to see what I could do about a return flight Brisbane to London on Qantas with my FF points. Sadly, Economy at 128,000 points (painful when business class was my general method of travel!) was dumped as $997.00 (!) in taxes was demanded. An email to Qantas asking why so much in fees/taxes did not generate a reply for over 3 weeks and even then the answer was marketing "fluff" - heavy taxes at London, ticketing and other costs, etc. When I called and said that surely these costs were involved in a purchased ticket too (which could be purchased for less that $500 more) the Qantas employee agreed with me that it didn't make sense!

So I then look at purchasing a ticket on which I can upgrade using points and, in my research, I find a return Emirates flight BNE - DXB - LHR for $1600.00 approx return (probably can't upgrade using points on this?). But then, and here is the rub, I find that Qantas offer the same journey (USING EXACTLY THE SAME FLIGHTS/PLANES/TIMETABLE) for over $600 more! Again, an email to Qantas FF dept to see if this was a mistake (which at least got me a return phone call 2 weeks later) generated a reply that Qantas have a multi-billion $$ loss to recoup! The Qantas employee that called me was not in the slightest way interested in trying to retain me as a customer - "take it or leave it" was very much the attitude.

Recoup? This tactic will surely drive potential travellers away so how do they plan to recoup service/losses?

As a long-time user of QF before I retired I was always proud to use them. This is the straw that has broken the camel's back for me. Loyalty has truly vanished from Qantas' vocabulary it would appear.

But this brings me to my next question - Can QF FF points be used on other OneWorld airlines to either purchase tickets or upgrade? Any members' suggestions please?

To be honest I think you are causing yourself unnecessary grief waiting for a reply from Qantas that is going to make sense

I'd suggest you have a quick read of the main 'benefits' page of the Qantas frequent flyer program.

On there you will see you can redeem points on oneworld airlines, and there's also information about applying for upgrades... when flying Qantas (not emirates, or any other oneworld airline).

Don't be fooled by 'taxes' that airline agents talk about. Qantas (and most other airlines) charge fuel surcharges, which are levied on both award tickets and revenue tickets. The fuel surcharges are on top of any fare (paid or via points) component. For 99% of flights, the fuel surcharges make up the majority of the 'taxes' the airlines tell you about. In fact they are fees levied by the airlines.... just they like you to think they are 'taxes' and therefore outside the airlines' control.

As a lifetime gold you should also have received information from Qantas with your card with details about the benefits of your gold status - priority check-in, priority baggage, preferred seating, priority boarding, and lounge access whenever you fly any oneworld airline

Quoted $997 in fees and charges for a Qantas redemption? For just $300 more you could fly Qatar, with just one stop to anywhere in Europe. You'd also get all the oneworld benefits of your Qantas gold status. And save yourself 128,000 points in the process!

Now there are ins and outs to using Qantas points for flights. As you have found, premium travel is likely to give you the best bang for your buck... but finding availability can be hard.

Upgrading? You need to first buy a more expensive economy fare (not the very cheapest), and then join a lottery to see if you are successful (basically as a gold you should expect to fly in the class you have booked, not be upgraded). So you could be paying several hundred dollars more for a wasted effort.

You can also get a little creative with the use of your points... instead of flying to Europe for 128,000 in economy (with $800 in fees), you could fly business class to SIN for the same number of miles (and about $300 in fees), and then buy a business class ticket from there to Europe for around $2000. Sure it's a little more outlay, but you can fly in comfort the whole way!

Not all is lost - but perhaps you might need to rethink the best way of getting value for the points you have.

 

[Deleted member]

And Mel Traveller brings sanity to the thread

 

[JohnK]

While I agree that sometimes the taxes on award flights really highlight the bad state of awards within the program, I'm not sure what use LTG would be to you if they reduced their fees to a level where they ceased to operate. You'd then have a card that was completely useless.

Incorporate fuel surcharges into base airfares, don't include fuel surcharges in award bookings, increase cost of awards by 2-5% to compensate and stop paying executive bonuses for staff to do the job they are already more than adequately renumerated to perform.

Why look for the most complex solution to very simple problems?

 

[jpk]

Yes, the taxes on QF/EK are horrendous. I just priced BNE-LHR-BNE on QF/EK and it came to 128k + $897. But, if you tell us how many points you have and how much you want to spend, and what's most important to you, the crowd here are usually pretty good at coming up with inventive solutions.

eg: if you have more points to spare, you could do CX: 150k + $483.
Or you can fly to a different port that will save taxes, eg: AMS on EK: $730.

None of these are a great use of points really though. Some better options:
- 1 way BNE-LHR on CX in business: 139k + $160. To get back book a one way cash in economy with SQ from AMS (£440), use the train or Easyjet to get to AMS. Other ports can be cheap too.
- BNE-SIN-BNE on QF/EK in business: 120k + $620. (or do it cheap on JQ or Scoot). Then SIN-CMB-LHR on Sri Lankan in business for $2270.

 

[howiesue]

To be honest I think you are causing yourself unnecessary grief waiting for a reply from Qantas that is going to make sense

I'd suggest you have a quick read of the main 'benefits' page of the Qantas frequent flyer program.

On there you will see you can redeem points on oneworld airlines, and there's also information about applying for upgrades... when flying Qantas (not emirates, or any other oneworld airline).

Don't be fooled by 'taxes' that airline agents talk about. Qantas (and most other airlines) charge fuel surcharges, which are levied on both award tickets and revenue tickets. The fuel surcharges are on top of any fare (paid or via points) component. For 99% of flights, the fuel surcharges make up the majority of the 'taxes' the airlines tell you about. In fact they are fees levied by the airlines.... just they like you to think they are 'taxes' and therefore outside the airlines' control.

As a lifetime gold you should also have received information from Qantas with your card with details about the benefits of your gold status - priority check-in, priority baggage, preferred seating, priority boarding, and lounge access whenever you fly any oneworld airline

Quoted $997 in fees and charges for a Qantas redemption? For just $300 more you could fly Qatar, with just one stop to anywhere in Europe. You'd also get all the oneworld benefits of your Qantas gold status. And save yourself 128,000 points in the process!

Now there are ins and outs to using Qantas points for flights. As you have found, premium travel is likely to give you the best bang for your buck... but finding availability can be hard.

Upgrading? You need to first buy a more expensive economy fare (not the very cheapest), and then join a lottery to see if you are successful (basically as a gold you should expect to fly in the class you have booked, not be upgraded). So you could be paying several hundred dollars more for a wasted effort.

You can also get a little creative with the use of your points... instead of flying to Europe for 128,000 in economy (with $800 in fees), you could fly business class to SIN for the same number of miles (and about $300 in fees), and then buy a business class ticket from there to Europe for around $2000. Sure it's a little more outlay, but you can fly in comfort the whole way!

Not all is lost - but perhaps you might need to rethink the best way of getting value for the points you have.

Try as I may I cannot find a SIN-LON business Class return for $2k on anything except Sri Lankan or Vietnamese and even these are a fair bit more. Your guidance here would be appreciated as the idea of using points (120k) on Business Class to SIN is a good one. Still $600 fees tho. Noted that flight to HK whilst 130k points on CX is only $200 fees! Go figure. But Business Class fares from HK are considebly higher still.

 

[dajop]

Try as I may I cannot find a SIN-LON business Class return for $2k on anything except Sri Lankan or Vietnamese and even these are a fair bit more. Your guidance here would be appreciated as the idea of using points (120k) on Business Class to SIN is a good one. Still $600 fees tho. Noted that flight to HK whilst 130k points on CX is only $200 fees! Go figure. But Business Class fares from HK are considebly higher still.

You will not find a business class fare from SIN to London on anyone for $2k due to the air passenger dury that the UK imposes. You will get very close to that if you fly TO London but choose another airport to depart from (such as Milan or Paris). From memory UL fares from SIN to Paris are about $2100 AUD return.

 

[howiesue]

Haven't found a favourable report on UL - almost exclusively get slagged big-time. Only get what you pay for I guess.

 

[Austman]

Haven't found a favourable report on UL - almost exclusively get slagged big-time. Only get what you pay for I guess.

Here is one:

I flew (in the past few weeks) SIN-CMB-CDG return in J.

SIN-CMB and CMB-SIN in A320s. CMB-CDG and CDG-CMB in the new A330-300s.

On board, except perhaps for alcohol quality (it was still fine) they were excellent and better in many ways than QF.

Positives:
Absolutely lovely crew.
Seating on the A320s (regional) is so much better than QF dom J. Much more leg and shoulder room. It's not a flat bed but I easily fell asleep.
Seating on the new A330-300s is fully flat herringbone style 1-2-1 which is up there with the better J classes of the world.
Quite extensive menus and huge amounts of food.
Crabtree & Evelyn amenity kits.
Slippers on long hauls.
Separate eye mask and socks on long hauls.
Very well equipped rest rooms. Qantas should copy!
UL's lounge in CMB has extensive food options with a dining section and a bar service but quite poor showers.

Negatives:
No pajamas.
CMB, while certainly OK is not the greatest transit airport.
Boarding in CMB can be chaotic.


Some pics: