Flying Safe - Medics Onboard Qantas

[ozkid]

The ground controllers should (and I believe they do) have final say in diversion of aircraft. I might put my case forward as a strong recommendation, but I wouldn't be the one demanding a flight diversion. I might suggest going lower altitude though, if the situation warrants

I am also very circumspect about the legal protections one might have in an in-flight situation. The Good Samaritan law is only applicable in an Australian sense, and different countries have their own medico-legal culture that can be quite foreign and counter-intuitive to our own

 

[drron]

I have recounted my experiences a few times before so wont go over all again.
You must remember in some places the law requires you to help.France is the probably the most severe.You can get a long jail sentence .Their law requires you to help on any aircraft flying through French airspace.Noumea of course is French airspace.Quebec and Finland also require you to help but as far as I am aware their laws don't extend to their airspace.
I have never been asked for ID.My only ID is my AMA card.
I have never felt that I could not deal with the medical issues I have been asked to attend.But then practising in Regional areas you do learn to rely on your clinical knowledge rather than tests.I remember in 1971 working in Cobar.All path tests were sent by road to Dubbo to be done so nothing really available urgently.You could however get urgent electrolytes done by the lab at Cobar mines if that was urgent.
Only involved in one incident where consideration of diversion came into it.Was on JAL flying NRT-JFK.However the difference in time diverting to ORD rather than continuing on to JFK was only 30-40 minutes.Also the woman was travelling to NYC to be seen at the the Sloan Kettering.Her Japanese doctors had prepared her well for travel.It was pretty certain she had septicaemia.I was able to collect blood cultures before starting the antibiotics she had been provided with.The best part was that I was assigned my own personal FA to translate.I did consider submitting a case report but would have been difficult collating all the evidence.
What was appreciated on this occasion was being told of the outcome-fortunately positive.

 

[vetrade]

Yes but I don't think you can conclude that someone is faking their nursing qualification just because they looked ditzy to you or they used the incorrect technique to palpate the radial pulse. Put under pressure, especially juniors, do silly things.

At the risk of boring other readers of this thread I will elaborate. I tend not to give people the benefit of the doubt when it's obvious they don't deserve it.
I referred to the fake nurse as "ditzy" because that summed up my instant impression of her - not because of her OTT appearance but because of her in-your-face, overly confident "I want to be the heroine of the day / I know everything / I can fix anything" approach. The type who thinks of themselves as an expert because they watched a few episodes of ER back in the day.

Maybe she was well meaning but my immediate impression was that she was an attention seeker type who would have claimed to be a pilot if an opportunity was on offer for that. Age 45 -50 - certainly not a nervous junior under pressure but, yes, she did do silly things and it was obvious she shouldn't have been making a medical assessment of the other pax. The correct way of taking a radial pulse, and why, is one of the most basic and fundamental things taught to trainees and something they do automatically after a very short time. Only an ultra novice would take it with their thumb, no matter how much pressure they were under.

 

[amaroo]

France is the probably the most severe.You can get a long jail sentence. Their law requires you to help on any aircraft flying through French airspace.Noumea of course is French airspace..

Sacré bleu

 

[slc767338]

Worth noting is the LH Doctor on Board program.
http://www.lufthansa.com/au/en/Doctor-on-board
Looks like a very valuable asset for members and crew and 'pre-verifies' the bona fides of any would be onboard medico.

 

[RIbandit]

I am an insurance professional and can confirm that all Aviation Liabililty policies held by carriers should have an indemnity in favour of medical professionals acting in the capacity of Good Samaritan.

I signed the other half (doctor) up to the LH program, which is a great idea. It even notes the Good Samaritan indemnity from memory.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks for those replies, and note I've snipped some of the accompanying words (I don't mean to change meaning). I'll try and find the thread and comments when this was discussed before. I recall (but may be wrong) that the replies were then firmly that the TeleMed types on the radio were the ones who ultimately informed the Qantas pilots.

Its not the thread I was thinking of, but as Princess Fiona noted above, in 2013 JB747 mentioned that the Captain would take advice from the ground crew, rather a doctor on board in respect to whether the plane diverted or not.

Ah, found it. I find I'm covering the exact same ground here, sorry (told you was an interest of mine ) so I better pack it in before the mental health practitioners start looking at me in an interested, clinical way.

 

[Cynicor]

Its not the thread I was thinking of, but as Princess Fiona noted above, in 2013 JB747 mentioned that the Captain would take advice from the ground crew, rather a doctor on board in respect to whether the plane diverted or not.

Ah, found it. I find I'm covering the exact same ground here, sorry (told you was an interest of mine ) so I better pack it in before the mental health practitioners start looking at me in an interested, clinical way.

Was going to say the same thing, the ground team and captain have final say, not the Dr on board. Which is the way I would prefer it, some of my colleagues would send a cut toe to ED if they could get away with it.

 

[JohnM]

Its not the thread I was thinking of, but as Princess Fiona noted above, in 2013 JB747 mentioned that the Captain would take advice from the ground crew, rather a doctor on board in respect to whether the plane diverted or not.

Ah, found it. I find I'm covering the exact same ground here, sorry (told you was an interest of mine ) so I better pack it in before the mental health practitioners start looking at me in an interested, clinical way.

Time for you to go hiking in the Andes to clear your head and get your feet back on the ground, RF .

 

[ozkid]

I am an insurance professional and can confirm that all Aviation Liabililty policies held by carriers should have an indemnity in favour of medical professionals acting in the capacity of Good Samaritan.

I signed the other half (doctor) up to the LH program, which is a great idea. It even notes the Good Samaritan indemnity from memory.

Hmmm sorry but I wouldn't hold a candle to it. Won't save you if the treatment was inadequate or deemed negligent. Still liable for prosecution

 

[RIbandit]

Hmmm sorry but I wouldn't hold a candle to it. Won't save you if the treatment was inadequate or deemed negligent. Still liable for prosecution

Insurance won't stop the possibility of you getting prosecuted but it will protect your financial interests / pay legals for your alleged breach of professional duty. What will stop you being prosecuted is the Good Samaritan laws previously referred to.

 

[Pushka]

Where do I get these AHPRA cards everyone is talking about? I only have the dodgy attachment they send me via email.

They send them in the mail. MrP has his as Psychologist.

 

[ozkid]

Insurance won't stop the possibility of you getting prosecuted but it will protect your financial interests / pay legals for your alleged breach of professional duty. What will stop you being prosecuted is the Good Samaritan laws previously referred to.

And here is the problem, as others have said - the legal obligations differ from airline to airline, dependent on what that country's definition of rendering assistance. I'd have no problems on a QF flight as I am aware of this country's medicolegal situation, be somewhat comfortable on a US aircraft, concerned about a French airline, and not volunteer at all in a middle eastern airline. Sorry I think it is quite naive to assume that what is reasonable in Australia applies elsewhere, and that your insurance will be a safety net

 

[PaulST]

Insurance won't stop the possibility of you getting prosecuted but it will protect your financial interests / pay legals for your alleged breach of professional duty. What will stop you being prosecuted is the Good Samaritan laws previously referred to.

Not every country has Good Samaritan laws, though.

 

[RIbandit]

At least Insurance will respond like it is meant to, we just need our international legal practitioners to come up with a fix

This reminds me of The Seinfeld finale lol

 

[equus]

If you'd told me in 1900 that by the 1960s people would be flying around in 300,000 tonne aircraft, I'd have laughed at you.

If you told me that now, I would still laugh at you . I would believe 300.000 kg, but not tonnes. The largest supertanker ever built was only 275,000 tonnes, and that didn't fly.

Are units of measure as important to medicos as they are to engineers?

 

[PaulST]

If you told me that now, I would still laugh at you . I would believe 300.000 kg, but not tonnes. The largest supertanker ever built was only 275,000 tonnes, and that didn't fly.

Are units of measure as important to medicos as they are to engineers?

My mistake.

 

[legroom]

No it shouldn't. Do what you're trained to do and nothing more. And you'll be fine. No one has been sued for doing their job. The only instances of where docs and others have been successfully sued is where they did things that they wouldn't even have done in a hospital.

Or.... not coming to help when you are asked on the spot to do so.

BTW, I don't know anyone who carries a Medico ID while travelling.

If someone insists on an ID, I'd happy to sit down having exercised my offer of being a Good Samaritan and let the good bureaucrat looks after the patient.

Honestly, helping out is in our DNA. It's unthinkable to continue dozing (in J or F) when one could assist another in trouble really. One would be in the wrong profession to think otherwise.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Or.... not coming to help when you are asked on the spot to do so.

BTW, I don't know anyone who carries a Medico ID while travelling.

If someone insists on an ID, I'd happy to sit down having exercised my offer of being a Good Samaritan and let the good bureaucrat looks after the patient.

Honestly, helping out is in our DNA. It's unthinkable to continue dozing (in J or F) when one could assist another in trouble really. One would be in the wrong profession to think otherwise.

I do, but not to prove my credentials in the event of rendering assistance.
In the event of me not having it or it not being accepted I doubt I'd care if the situation was serious enough to warrant my intervention.
I'd act and face the consequences afterwards.

 

[Cynicor]

Or.... not coming to help when you are asked on the spot to do so.

BTW, I don't know anyone who carries a Medico ID while travelling.

If someone insists on an ID, I'd happy to sit down having exercised my offer of being a Good Samaritan and let the good bureaucrat looks after the patient.

Honestly, helping out is in our DNA. It's unthinkable to continue dozing (in J or F) when one could assist another in trouble really. One would be in the wrong profession to think otherwise.

As I said before, I do, but mostly for photo ID that had no id theft potential.