Do you learn the local language

[russ]

Even after living there for 6 months I was still regarded with contempt when I tried Quebequois.

Possibly because it's Québécois?

 

[Mattg]

I can speak English and German fluently and I can generally get by with one of those in almost all of the places I travel (at least at the moment).

But I do go to a lot of different countries, and usually try to learn a little bit in each of the other countries I go to, either before I get there or after arriving. In quite a lot of places, I have had friends try to teach me. As a result, I know bits and pieces of Dutch, French, Spanish, Portueguese, Malay, Chinese & Italian, though not enough to have a proper conversation in any of those languages.

In the Netherlands, I can understand most of the signs as Dutch is similar to German, but couldn't have a conversation in the local language.

I am currently working in Germany but deal with a lot of English-speaking tourists. About 60% just speak to me in English because, let's be honest, it's easier for everyone. About 20% try to speak in German but do it really badly... I try to stick to German with them in order to at least acknowledge that they are making an effort, but half the time will end up reverting to English. The other 20% will speak to you in English, but then say thank you etc. in German. I honestly don't think this is really necessary, but perhaps I would feel differently about this if I was actually German.

I feel that people from English-speaking backgrounds get quite complacent when it comes to learning foreign languages. Around the world, so many people can speak two or even three or more languages, but English speakers tend to not bother as English is widely spoken. Which is true, but you will only ever scratch the surface of a non-English speaking country if you don't speak the language as, let's face it, your visit will probably be based out of a nice hotel, and you will probably do an English-speaking tour which takes you to selected tourist attractions... and the only locals you will speak to will be the ones trying to sell you things...

 

[Himeno]

I feel that people from English-speaking backgrounds get quite complacent when it comes to learning foreign languages. Around the world, so many people can speak two or even three or more languages, but English speakers tend to not bother as English is widely spoken.

In many countries overseas, learning a foreign language (often English) is a required class. In many schools in English speaking nations, it isn't. The foreign language classes are generally electives and the required versions of them are only required for a short time.

Which is true, but you will only ever scratch the surface of a non-English speaking country if you don't speak the language as, let's face it, your visit will probably be based out of a nice hotel, and you will probably do an English-speaking tour which takes you to selected tourist attractions... and the only locals you will speak to will be the ones trying to sell you things...

The only time I ever go on a tour group is if said tour is the only way to see something (eg, Korean DMZ). I've found my own way around 14 non English speaking nations on my own, even without knowing much (if any) of the local language.

 

[Homer]

The only time I ever go on a tour group is if said tour is the only way to see something (eg, Korean DMZ). I've found my own way around 14 non English speaking nations on my own, even without knowing much (if any) of the local language.

Yep, me too. I'd add that I've used a group tour only a couple of times in 20 years when I had very limited time in a place, e.g. I had three days in Montreal and wanted to have a broad overview at the beginning so jumped on one of those buses. It was pretty terrible, but at least I was "oriented" geographically to spend the next two days exploring myself. Marge and I are proudly "independent" travellers. We arm ourselves with only a guide book and the belief in the general kindness of people. We sometimes get scammed by a cabbie (BKK) or told that we were lucky to make it back to the hotel alive (EZE), but we love it. Learning a few words in French or Cantonese won't markedly change our experience, if at all.

 

[boomy]

I had no problems traveling in Taiwan or Japan without knowing the local languages. Most people I met were very nice and helpful.
Mainland China however is a different story...

 

[drron]

None of the options really fit my situation.I am hopeless at languages but do try.
Currently in Burma and know 4 phrases.Two are greeted with wide smiles,2 with less enthusiasm.Mo where bu-I am not going to buy from you.But Lade(Lahday) can get you into trouble-you are beautiful.
But just with mingalabar and che zu ba-hello and thank you you will be rewarded with smiles and handshakes and at the last temple in Bagan a line up of locals wanting their picture taken with you.

 

[RooFlyer]

Possibly because it's Québécois?

Possibly. But more so when the northern locals told me straight faced that the word for the midday meal was "le lunch" which was usually taken when sitting on "la bench" and most enjoyable on 'le weekend'. Topped off by being told that a what is globally called a 'boudinage structure' in geology was actually called 'le pinch-and-swell structure' . Well, almost globally.

At least a 'gros Black' usually got the right result.

 

[anat0l]

It pays to learn some of the local language, at the very least the basic pleasantries, as well as the standard phrase, "Can you speak English". Learning what the words are is one thing, pronouncing them correctly is another, whether it be getting the tongue in the right place (many romance, Slavic and Ural languages) or the intonation correct (many Asian languages).

Possibly. But more so when the northern locals told me straight faced that the word for the midday meal was "le lunch" which was usually taken when sitting on "la bench" and most enjoyable on 'le weekend'. Topped off by being told that a what is globally called a 'boudinage structure' in geology was actually called 'le pinch-and-swell structure' . Well, almost globally.

Whilst the French in France are proud of their language (obvious reasons) and the French-speaking Swiss are resolute in keeping their language in the multi-lingual confederation (of which the differences in language use are subtle but not confusing to native French), Quebecois Canadians confuse me in how they are trying to keep their own dialect so tightly and yet associate themselves with being French (in some cases, arrogantly claiming to be more French than the French themselves). I guess it comes to no surprise why Quebecois seccession is often a topic of discussion.

For whatever it is worth, in French Switzerland, we do enjoy le weekend, but the middle-of-the-day meal is le dîner and the one at the end of the day is le souper; the latter two are comparable to parts of England where lunch is called "dinner" and dinner is called "supper" (or "tea"). Also, counting from 60 to 100 in French Switzerland is a hell lot easier than in standard French! (I'm guessing the Quebecois use standard French counting).

Anyway, a diversion, but it also points out that languages used in countries outside of their native homelands (English, French) can have significant cultural differences which are worthy of note.


For Hong Kong and Taiwan, for Hong Kong unless you go far off the beaten track or eat at the restaurants well-trodden only by natives (usually these will be completely Cantonese or Mandarin), you can get by in English without too much difficulty. My Mandarin is horrible (despite it being my mother's mother tongue - not mine) but being able to speak a little helped, and being able to recognise script (an unrealistic expectation for a complete beginner without much preparation) was very useful, especially if you want to go to a nice yum cha restaurant. Taiwan is a lot more difficult in this regard; this might have changed in the 10+ years I haven't been there, but from what I could tell hardly anyone (unless they work in tourism) can speak English - all speak Mandarin (which in Taiwan is actually slightly accented compared to the standard Chinese "pu tong hua"), and it gets far worse when you leave Taipei. As is the case in many places, younger people will have a better chance of speaking English.

The biggest trap for anyone attempting to speak some Mandarin is tones. Whilst almost every Chinese person would have likely heard (in person, through friends or on Youtube) almost every single non-native Chinese speaker stuff up the pronunciation of "ni hao" enough to recognise what someone blurting it to them is saying, attempting to say more complicated phrases without getting the tones correct will likely confuse and not much else. Sometimes it's easier just to point at the phrasebook or translation app (which aren't always accurate), or gesture/mime/use pictures/etc...

 

[Buzzard]

Despite my european background, I suck at languages but my hubby (also from a non English speaking home) makes a big effort to learn some phrases to meet and greet the locals and its always been well accepted.

Well except for a French FA, who sat us down, pointed at us and said; "You two. Do not attempt to speak my language, OK?" After 24hrs of travelling, its made us laugh.

I would love for that FA to meet my SIL who speaks with a coughney accent. He is however French and speaks it fluently. He'd give her what for!

 

[Isochronous]

Anyone who travels to China without knowing Mandarin is a brave soul indeed!

 

[Anna]

Anyone who travels to China without knowing Mandarin is a brave soul indeed!

I survived a long weekend in Shanghai with only ni hao, xiexie and bye bye

But seriously, I am a huge Duolingo fan. Using that app I learned enough Portuguese so that when I went to Portugal last year I amazed myself by being able to buy tickets, get directions and order meals entirely in Portuguese without having to resort to English at all. I even understood what people were saying to me It took about 2 months using the app to finish the course, maybe 20 mins a day or so. Much more productive than Candy Crush etc when I had some spare moments.

In France people are usually very nice to me about my French. Especially les hommes Could be why I like France

 

[jukebox333]

I survived a long weekend in Shanghai with only ni hao, xiexie and bye bye

I survived two years in Taipei with not much more than that, too! I called it "Taxi Driver Mandarin" - I needed to know the numbers 1-10, left, right, stop, want, don't want, yes, no, please and thank you.

But I too found Taipei hard - locals could speak some English, but were afraid to use it as they were embarrassed they were getting it wrong.

Not easy - but not a show stopper. Have fun!

 

[Denali]

Anyone who travels to China without knowing Mandarin is a brave soul indeed!

In China, I have learnt to speak duelling calculators. Money haggling seems to cross all languages when you have a calculator.

 

[harvyk]

When I went to Shanghai (the original reason I learned some Mandarin) a few years back, I lost count of the number of times I would go somewhere and say "ni hao" only to be greeted with "hello, how are you today sir". When I was speaking with my sister who was living there at the time her response was simple, the English speakers got the best jobs, therefore most people there wanted to learn English and never passed up an opportunity to speak it.

So far the only people I've come across whom don't typically speak English are taxi drivers, but then again a map or business card will usually solve that problem. The other time is with shop assistants in markets, but then again calculator battles are always fun.

Of course "bu xie xie" or even simply "bu" is useful if only to tell the street hawkers to go somewhere else in a language they will understand. (saying no thank you in English just seems to make it a challenge for them)

 

[Denali]

.... therefore most people there wanted to learn English and never passed up an opportunity to speak it

We were at Chengdu panda zoo and the kids swarmed to us, to practise their English. Lots of questions, felt like a job interview at some point and pretty much perfect English and min accent.

 

[harvyk]

We were at Chengdu panda zoo and the kids swarmed to us, to practise their English. Lots of questions, felt like a job interview at some point and pretty much perfect English and min accent.

As long as you don't get taken to a tea house...

 

[anat0l]

I survived a long weekend in Shanghai with only ni hao, xiexie and bye bye

Long weekend isn't asking for much, but good form anyway!

But seriously, I am a huge Duolingo fan. Using that app I learned enough Portuguese so that when I went to Portugal last year I amazed myself by being able to buy tickets, get directions and order meals entirely in Portuguese without having to resort to English at all. I even understood what people were saying to me It took about 2 months using the app to finish the course, maybe 20 mins a day or so. Much more productive than Candy Crush etc when I had some spare moments.

I used Duolingo for a bit before in learning French. In theory it's a nice app but what annoys me is the learning method, which is basically trial and error (and running out of hearts all the time). I know learning by immersion does this to you as well, but at least you have a more realistic point of reference via immersion than with Duolingo, which rarely tells you why you went wrong (the discussions are not always filled with the content you need to fix your mistake, plus some alternative phrases are marked as wrong but being a learner you hardly realise this). I don't know about the Portuguese programme (and I assume you've used the French one), but to speak French properly (viz. point of reference Parisian French) you need more than the app (so thankfully I can practice with my flatmates).

Not to mention some of the example phrases the app makes you translate are absolutely ridiculous. Damn frustrating way to throw out your chance for an extra lingot during a quiz.

All said and done, I'm not as studious as you in setting aside regular time to learn the language; suffice to say even if my language develops independent of Duolingo I should go back to the app anyway and "beat it".

In France people are usually very nice to me about my French. Especially les hommes Could be why I like France

In France, that's not hard at all for a female. You only have to be good looking. *starts running*

When I went to Shanghai (the original reason I learned some Mandarin) a few years back, I lost count of the number of times I would go somewhere and say "ni hao" only to be greeted with "hello, how are you today sir". When I was speaking with my sister who was living there at the time her response was simple, the English speakers got the best jobs, therefore most people there wanted to learn English and never passed up an opportunity to speak it.

Likely true only because the "best jobs" (of course, for the Chinese this translates to the ones with the highest salaries) are those with big companies who have to work with international firms or within international protocols, which will be typically in English or English speaking (or at least that would be the lingua franca). Having English proficiency would likely be a strong trump card in applying for a job. But that doesn't likely apply when, for example, you go to a typical restaurant, unless the person serving you wants out and into a better job.

Students may take keen interest because (with the "encouragement" from their parents) learning English may mean a chance to apply for tertiary education outside of China at a reputable institution of greater global repute, but naturally this means a strong working knowledge of English both to study there, survive there and pass the English proficiency exam (without cheating).

Of course "bu xie xie" or even simply "bu" is useful if only to tell the street hawkers to go somewhere else in a language they will understand. (saying no thank you in English just seems to make it a challenge for them)

"bu" or "bu yao" is good enough for them; the "thank you" is completely unnecessary.

 

[NM]

Before traveling to a country/area where English communication is likely to be difficult, I practice playing Charades and Pictionary with the family as I find that much easier than learning another language. My engineer's brain does not cope with multiple languages (though Mrs NM often thinks I am speaking a different language when she overhears me on work phone calls). I do try to pick up a few things like "please", "thanks you", "yes", "no", "hello" etc. But that is not speaking/learning the language, its just being polite.

 

[harvyk]

Likely true only because the "best jobs" (of course, for the Chinese this translates to the ones with the highest salaries) are those with big companies who have to work with international firms or within international protocols, which will be typically in English or English speaking (or at least that would be the lingua franca). Having English proficiency would likely be a strong trump card in applying for a job. But that doesn't likely apply when, for example, you go to a typical restaurant, unless the person serving you wants out and into a better job.

The better jobs as I was told was the western style hotels, especially the ones which have American tourists whom feel the need to tip. Some of those guys could earn more in a single shift than a person working a week in a local restaurant.

"bu" or "bu yao" is good enough for them; the "thank you" is completely unnecessary.

I'd typically start with including "xie xie", if nothing else but to be polite (and I was told that was an appropriate response when I first started learning Mandarin). I'd drop "xie xie" and just say "bu" in a bit more forceful tone if they didn't get the hint the first time around.

 

[anat0l]

I'd typically start with including "xie xie", if nothing else but to be polite (and I was told that was an appropriate response when I first started learning Mandarin). I'd drop "xie xie" and just say "bu" in a bit more forceful tone if they didn't get the hint the first time around.

That's interesting to note. In the large Chinese cities (especially mainland China), depending on how often you were being pestered by such people, there is little need for pleasantries, unless you were actually going to engage them in business (by then which you have established a connection, so then pleasantries are introduced). It is not much different to people in Australia walking down the street and being approached by various people with promotional flyers, appeals to subscribe to be a charitable donor, donate to a cause or join a health club. Many such people rarely get a "no thank you" from the general public, in favour of either just "no", a hand up and a shake of the head, or simply the person quickly moving on.

In markets e.g. in Hong Kong and Singapore where you could be accosted by a merchant after walking away from a deal which you simply could not find a way to close on agreeable terms, you need to show very little if any politeness as you walk away resolutely, otherwise it is a sign of weakness and you're likely to continue to be accosted. Again, if you're actually "in business", then we have engagement and thus on different terms, e.g. the concepts of face, guan xi and so on become important.

As a side point, if in Germany and being accosted by a beggar, saying "no, thank you" in German (viz. "nein, danke") will give you away as a kind foreigner and result in further begging. You really just have to walk away or firmly say, "Leave me alone!"