Downgraded from Business Class.

[BAM1748]

In a perfect world yes, however just say you were a WP couple who had arrived on a late inbound or cancelled flight and missed QF16 and there weren't J seats for another 3 days to SYD/MEL/BNE would you be happy to wait 3 days or would you expect the airline to try to do something to get you out earlier?

I don't believe it was staff passengers who got on as LAX ground staff don't do staff any favours as they don't see QF employees as fellow colleagues or friends - just people who get travel benefits that they (contractors) don't. They may even be a little bit spiteful and enjoy the discomfort of seeing them not get on.

If they can't get you on 16 they need to route you via elsewhere and it may take an extra day. I've personally been two days late on a transpacific flight (with QF in J) and I would never expect an existing passenger who has a ticket to be pushed off. I do expect the airline to make sure I'm fed and watered which QF do very well when there is a problem.

Contractors do get flight benefits but they are ranked down the priority list for a seat. So an employee in Sydney accounts is rated higher on the priority list than a contractor doing baggage handling.

Matt

 

[opusman]

I have had PMs from Red Roo that were signed with a first name.

 

[BAM1748]

Not always correct.

100% correct when Red Roo has contacted me which is fact.

 

[Pushka]

Red Roo attends the social events organised by Qantas for AFF'ers. Sometimes a he. Sometimes a she.

 

[Pushka]

From the Australian Govt website advisory on travel.

 

[amaroo]

She was on a separate booking to the remainder of you. If BA had flagged the bookings as linked in the downgrade procedure they would never have called her IMO.
None of this proves that EmilyP's parents were picked out as soft targets, it's all conjecture.

The aggressive tactics used by LAX staff indicates an aggressive attitude was implemented from the get go ... no call for volunteers, a "short straw" result, followed by the company representative dismissing any appeal for assistance and walking away mid conversation - these are bullying actions and should not be tolerated.

If this couple pushed back - I'm willing to bet they would have got onboard ... just like I got my MIL onboard that BA flight. At the start of that phone conversation with the BA agent - their position was - I'm sorry, there is nothing we can do. Well, they sure as heck changed their mind.

In these cases, airlines are looking for the path of least resistance....

 

[DC3]

Red Roo attends the social events organised by Qantas for AFF'ers. Sometimes a he. Sometimes a she.

Interesting.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The aggressive tactics used by LAX staff indicates an aggressive attitude was implemented from the get go ... no call for volunteers, a "short straw" result, followed by the company representative dismissing any appeal for assistance and walking away mid conversation - these are bullying actions and should not be tolerated.


In these cases, airlines are looking for the path of least resistance....

Again, sounding like a broken record but we don't actually know if anyone was asked to volunteer.
Nothing that I have read so far indicates to me "aggressive tactics" or an "aggressive attitude".
I fully agree that the report of the Lounge supervisor walking away mid conversation is very poor customer relations on the part of the ground staff.

I think the airlines are looking for passengers to downgrade based on a Policy and Procedure which will be based amongst other things on Fare Class, PCV, party size etc. That may be interpreted by you as the path of least resistance but that does not mean that is how the Airlines are implementing their procedures.

 

[DC3]

Again, sounding like a broken record but we don't actually know if anyone was asked to volunteer ......

And there's no evidence that anyone was actually asked. And we will probably never find out.

 

[Princess Fiona]

And there's no evidence that anyone was actually asked. And we will probably never find out.

Indeed there's no evidence either way but I keep on reading that "no-one was asked if they would volunteer to downgrade".

I find it helps me to understand things if I stick to the facts.

 

[amaroo]

Indeed there's no evidence either way but I keep on reading that "no-one was asked if they would volunteer to downgrade".

I find it helps me to understand things if I stick to the facts.

Hmmm, I'm happy to accept Emilyp word on this matter. Do you think she is confused ?

If they did ask everyone else to volunteer but not the lucky "couple" doesn't that suggest - they were targeted?

Just jumping online quickly here, but I think I have already advised that Qantas DID NOT ask.

And I don't believe I am speculating. My parents have told me first hand of their experience and I am relaying it as fact.

They are not liars, and either am I

 

[ozbeachbabe]

If this couple pushed back - I'm willing to bet they would have got onboard ... just like I got my MIL onboard that BA flight. At the start of that phone conversation with the BA agent - their position was - I'm sorry, there is nothing we can do. Well, they sure as heck changed their mind.

In these cases, airlines are looking for the path of least resistance....

ISTR you saying BA called you the day prior to travel so easier for the airline to bump someone else in the meantime in lieu of the MIL as nobody is at the airport nor has checked in bags at this point.

Much harder for an airline to contact Australian pax in the USA as it's highly likely that even if they do have a US cell phone it won't be in the booking.

The ground staff would only get the opportunity to ask for volunteers if the pax were checking in at LAX because if you were flying inbound from another flight your bags would be through checked & you'd have your boarding passes so wouldn't have any need to see checkin staff at LAX.

 

[amaroo]

ISTR you saying BA called you the day prior to travel so easier for the airline to bump someone else in the meantime in lieu of the MIL as nobody is at the airport nor has checked in bags at this point.

Much harder for an airline to contact Australian pax in the USA as it's highly likely that even if they do have a US cell phone it won't be in the booking.

The ground staff would only get the opportunity to ask for volunteers if the pax were checking in at LAX because if you were flying inbound from another flight your bags would be through checked & you'd have your boarding passes so wouldn't have any need to see checkin staff at LAX.

The call was 8 or so hours before takeoff - IIRC, around midday for an 8pm departure. We were enjoying the hotel pool in Bangkok at the time. The agent was based god knows where (India ?) and called me on my OZ number.....they probably didn't think I'd answer the phone! Particularly as they thought they were ringing Mrs MIL .... this was the final leg of 5 BA flights - 4 of those in F.

 

[amaroo]

Again, sounding like a broken record but we don't actually know if anyone was asked to volunteer.
Nothing that I have read so far indicates to me "aggressive tactics" or an "aggressive attitude".
I fully agree that the report of the Lounge supervisor walking away mid conversation is very poor customer relations on the part of the ground staff.

I think the airlines are looking for passengers to downgrade based on a Policy and Procedure which will be based amongst other things on Fare Class, PCV, party size etc. That may be interpreted by you as the path of least resistance but that does not mean that is how the Airlines are implementing their procedures.

Hasn't the airline got an obligation to call for volunteers?

I can see we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. Maybe, you need to be actually targeted by an airline to understand how it works

 

[Princess Fiona]

Hasn't the airline got an obligation to call for volunteers?

I can see we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. Maybe, you need to be actually targeted by an airline to understand how it works

They have an obligation to call for volunteers before instituting involuntary denied boarding. I understand as well as anyone else here how it works I think thanks.
This is as per DOT regulations.


QF's own customer charter states that they will ask for volunteers prior to involuntary downgrades.
And again, we simply don't know whether QF did or didn't ask for volunteers. We do know that EmilyP's parents weren't asked. They were told that they were being downgraded to Y or could be re-booked in J the next day.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

There was no denied boarding incident therefore technically no requirement to call for volunteers.

Terribly handled however and QF deserve the bad PR they are receiving in this thread.

Give it a day or so and we'll probably see an "original" article on AusBT...

[/jaded]

 

[amaroo]

They have an obligation to call for volunteers before instituting involuntary denied boarding. I understand as well as anyone else here how it works I think thanks.

So they bully a couple of passengers into agreeing to accept a dud deal and they get away avoiding all the obligations under the sun - that's how the it works! Pathetic behaviour IMHO and doesn't deserve support.

How did you handle the last time you got bumped? Genuine Q ... did you like being targeted?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hasn't the airline got an obligation to call for volunteers?

I can see we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. Maybe, you need to be actually targeted by an airline to understand how it works

They have an obligation to call for volunteers before instituting involuntary denied boarding. I understand as well as anyone else here how it works I think thanks.

PF is correct. Volunteers only need to be called before denied boarding, and both pax flew in this case.

If the flight in general was oversold, QF may have asked other passengers at any stage - during the day or at check-in.

For bumping (not the case here), the US DOT position is set out here, including compensation (my bolding):
Fly Rights | Department of Transportation

Involuntary Bumping
DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

• If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.
• If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $650 maximum.
• If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1300 maximum).
• If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
• You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
• If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.

Note the full text states an exception if the airline has to substitute a smaller aircraft than originally planned. So an A380->747 would seem to allow airlines to escape involuntary boarding

Interesting too is how the lowest fare for a particular flight is deemed - cash, check [sic] or CC payment!

 

[Princess Fiona]

So they bully a couple of passengers into agreeing to accept a dud deal and they get away avoiding all the obligations under the sun - that's how the it works! Pathetic behaviour IMHO and doesn't deserve support.

How did you handle the last time you got bumped? Genuine Q ... did you like being targeted?

I have never said at any time that I have been bumped from a flight ?

 

[Pushka]

And again, we simply don't know whether QF did or didn't ask for volunteers. We do know that EmilyP's parents weren't asked.

So therefore we do know they didn't ask for volunteers.

And they were bumped. From J to F. So did they receive the written explanation?