Grammar Discussions

[rogerkambah]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The rules of grammar and spelling aren't evolving; it's just that more words are being added to the dictionary.

There's another incorrect use of a word that annoys me. Stationery and stationary. I'm continually correcting documents at work for this error.

This is because students have not been taught to spell correctly. in schooling, emphasis was placed on the conceptualisation of an idea, rather than on spelling. However misspelt words often convey an unintended impression.

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Well, I'll be! I think I have never known the difference between these. Thanks!

That said, I use 'stationary' a lot more than the other one, so I've probably just been lucky.... used correctly, of course (stationary meaning still or not moving).

I guess 'stationery' would be more common if you're into office supplies or if you're a petty cashier.

Stationary is an adjective so it is spelt with an "a".

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

This is because students have not been taught to spell correctly. in schooling, emphasis was placed on the conceptualisation of an idea, rather than on spelling. However misspelt words often convey an unintended impression.

Now here's the sticking point. When I tutored, I had to mark some reports written by typically 2nd or 3rd year students (i.e. they should have at least a decent grasp of grammar and how to write).

The problem was that many of them didn't know how to compose a coherent argument or passage. So you ended up with a whole bunch of disconnected ideas, many without justification of process.

So if schooling now is meant to emphasise conception of ideas, I'm not entirely sure it is working properly.

In any case, primary school is where spelling is drilled. Drilling spelling in high school is a waste of time; it should be fairly self-apparent by then how to spell or at least seek how to improve or correct one's spelling. My grade 10 English teacher had a simple system: if you made more than eight spelling errors in a piece of assessment, the best mark you could obtain was a B (no matter how well you wrote the piece, you could not get an A).

 

[blackcat20]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

This is because students have not been taught to spell correctly. in schooling, emphasis was placed on the conceptualisation of an idea, rather than on spelling. However misspelt words often convey an unintended impression.

And when I did my teaching rounds I was told not up waste time correcting spelling and grammar...

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

And when I did my teaching rounds I was told not up waste time correcting spelling and grammar...

When I tutored, I rarely corrected spelling and grammar. Basically if it didn't meet a standard and/or had too many errors, the mark was reduced accordingly.

 

[JohnK]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The rules of grammar and spelling aren't evolving; it's just that more words are being added to the dictionary.

There's another incorrect use of a word that annoys me. Stationery and stationary. I'm continually correcting documents at work for this error.

Licence and license
Eligible and eligable
Grey and gray

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Licence and license
Eligible and eligable
Grey and gray

First line is the difference between noun and verb, I believe.

The second line is simple - the second word is a spelling error of the first one.

The third is "jury out". According to my quick search, the former is more common in UK English, whereas the latter is more common in American English. I can't remember which one I use more myself; I think it might be 'grey'. The only time they aren't interchangeable is in some words, like "greyhound" (not "grayhound").

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

First line is the difference between noun and verb, I believe.

The second line is simple - the second word is a spelling error of the first one.

The third is "jury out". According to my quick search, the former is more common in UK English, whereas the latter is more common in American English. I can't remember which one I use more myself; I think it might be 'grey'. The only time they aren't interchangeable is in some words, like "greyhound" (not "grayhound").

Correct about licence and license. I used to issue a licence to people so that they were licensed to operate.

Grey is a colour. Gray is a unit for measuring radiation.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

The third is "jury out". According to my quick search, the former is more common in UK English, whereas the latter is more common in American English. I can't remember which one I use more myself; I think it might be 'grey'. The only time they aren't interchangeable is in some words, like "greyhound" (not "grayhound").

And another time they aren't interchangeable is a surname.

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Gray is a unit for measuring radiation.

Ah yes, another one of my pet hates in engineering. Someone quotes a number or measurement, and there's no units (or the wrong units) specified.

 

[medhead]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Ah yes, another one of my pet hates in engineering. Someone quotes a number or measurement, and there's no units (or the wrong units) specified.

I'm trying very hard to teach the children about the importance of units.

 

[anat0l]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I'm trying very hard to teach the children about the importance of units.

Working? What techniques do you use?


For some reason, units don't seem to be emphasised enough in high school.

Another high school habit which is hard to break is that not every problem is solvable with only one formula, as well as a formula can only be used in certain situations.

 

[blackcat20]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

When I tutored, I rarely corrected spelling and grammar. Basically if it didn't meet a standard and/or had too many errors, the mark was reduced accordingly.

If you don't tell high school students that they've got it wrong, how are they to know what's right?

Working? What techniques do you use?


For some reason, units don't seem to be emphasised enough in high school.

Another high school habit which is hard to break is that not every problem is solvable with only one formula, as well as a formula can only be used in certain situations.

I always ask for units by asking "10 what, bananas? Apples?" Etc. they learn quickly.

 

[TomVexille]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

If you don't tell high school students that they've got it wrong, how are they to know what's right?

But you'll dent their fragile psyche if you tell them that they're wrong.

Our world has gone soft.

 

[medhead]

The totally off-topic thread

Working? What techniques do you use?


For some reason, units don't seem to be emphasised enough in high school.

Another high school habit which is hard to break is that not every problem is solvable with only one formula, as well as a formula can only be used in certain situations.

No formal techniques. Not sure if it's working. Mainly using things that helped me understand during senior years and first year.. So doing stuff about rates for maths over the weekend, I focus on the calculation but also checking that the units did work out to be ml if we were looking for volume. Stopping to review the units. Then also using kilograms conceptually to explore if liters divided by 1000 would give ML.. .

 

[Cossie]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

"Should have" is indeed correct; "should of", I believe, evolved as an unwitting contraction of the correct pair of words, which is then incorrectly transcribed.

"Should've", according to my sources, is actually a contraction that at worst does not properly exist or at best is not acceptable in semi-formal or more formal usage. "Should have" is spelled out but in speech is often corrupted and contracted. A similar error, of which I find myself often doing and needing to eradicate, is "would have" (not "would've").

Been doing a favour for a friend in reviewing her application letters and selection criteria statements. She has a bit of an issue using commas (usually not enough); I think practice has me taking this for granted as I don't know where to start to cogently explain where one should use commmas.

Saw a T-shirt recently, "Punctuation counts. Let's eat Grandma. or Let's eat, Grandma".

 

[Flashback]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I'm trying very hard to teach the children about the importance of units.

They're called flats over here :mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

The totally off-topic thread

They're called flats over here :mrgreen:

The kids are learning about them and all. Double episodes of east enders on foxtel.

Or should I say "you're bang outta order"

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Well, I'll be! I think I have never known the difference between these. Thanks!

That said, I use 'stationary' a lot more than the other one, so I've probably just been lucky.... used correctly, of course (stationary meaning still or not moving).

I guess 'stationery' would be more common if you're into office supplies or if you're a petty cashier.

It's easy to remember. Use "ary' for stAY as you said, and 'ery' as in the 'e' for pEn for items such as office supplies.

 

[Pushka]

The totally off-topic thread

We were also strict on spelling and grammar with our children. We would look at their work and correct spelling mistakes that teachers either didn't know about, couldn't be bothered to check, or didn't have time to deal with.

A classic case was when one child was in year 7. A student teacher had given the class a spelling test. And he had no clue. He had crossed out the correctly spelt words and inserted his own incorrectly spelt ones. My son knew the teacher was wrong and laughed it off.

But I did visit the Deputy Principal (Principle according to my IPhone! ) about this as there were several children in the class who had learning issues. Not good enough. If people can't spell that's their issue but to think they are teaching their students the same errors!

Their and there.