Seat squatting in Exit Row Seats on International Flights

[will2rob]

I think in the OP's situation the FAs should monitor and if practicable, prevent the seat-swapping-into-exit-row-seats.

1) Exit rows are a (slightly) premium product attracting a higher price on nearly every airline these days, so its a similar situation to the fact that you can't seat-swap Y for PE nor Y or PE for J; AND

2) In theory, at an exit row seat you have to pass the FA's pre-take-off "Are you willing and able to undertake those (emergency situation) duties?" test. I think you actually have to positively reply with the answer "Yes" to that question. Seat jumpers obviously haven't. If the answer to the pre-flight question isn't important, why ask it?

This was my thinking exactly. Unlike any other seat in Y, you pay up to $180 extra for the additional legroom. If any unallocated seat is fair game, why not just jump into the the available F or J seat - same principle.

As rooflyer also pointed out, there are certain requirements to sit in the exit row, which is why you cant confirm the seats online, or have your 12 y.o. sitting with you in the exit row. I agree, that if the pre flight requirements arent enforced, why ask.

As I said earlier, I don't have a problem with people changing seats in general.

 

[will2rob]

Same principle applies with the $13K F ticket (vs a points upgrade).

The latter is pure luck and you may get to stay where you paid i.e. J.

Don't agree. Whether you pay full freight or use points, you've still paid extra to get that F ticket. The difference here is that squatters are getting the benefit of a product they have not paid for or are entitled to, which devalues the product. Moving to another seat in the same cabin is different because they have paid for a seat in that cabin and the value is still the same.

 

[timster]

Someone wishing to move to a vacant exit row seat has no way of knowing if other pax there paid extra for them or not.

I am tall and got free exit rows just for asking for one on QFi for my first 20 years of flying. Since I am limited by my employer in paying for premium seats I am more often than not now crammed into a regular seat.

However I still ask at checkin, and occasionally get an unallocated exit row seat for free. So anyone nabbing a vacant seat after takeoff is fine by me.

If I were in a regular seat and an exit row seat were left open after take off, I would ask the FA if I could take it.

Since QFi started selling them, I have observed many cases of pax who clearly do not satisfy the regulatory requirement to be in an exit row. In the old days I was always seated next to fit males (as I am) in the exit row. QF domestic seem much stricter these days on checking exit row pax after seating, as do US airlines. But not QFi it seems.

Not all airlines charge for exit rows. It seems to be a trait of LCC's and penny pinching airlines. I am in the process of moving my business to an airline that does not sell them but instead gives them to tall fit pax, as QF used to.

 

[mannej]

Timster has a fair point - not everyone sitting in an exit row has paid for it, the fee as others have alluded to is to guarantee the seat.

What are people's thoughts on this domestically, specifically in reference to the A330's where the exit rows aren't always occupied?

 

[Hvr]

WRT to domestic flights I have occasionally been asked to move to an exit row on the plane because no one else was seated there and the FA said it was a requirement to have at least one person in the row.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Most exit rows on widebody aircraft have a crew jumpseat with them so AFAIK it won't matter if a pax is sitting there or not. On narrowbody B737/A320 etc where its an overwing exit with no crew jumpseat, that's when you need some able bodied people to be there.

 

[Archphoto]

you wouldn't get away with it on AIR ASIA let me tell you!

Cough up the $$$$ and you will.

They enforce it fully - you want that "premium" seat - you pay here and now, if not stay in your allocated seat. Seen some cranky "guests" who weren't willing to do so, but they were firm with them, and refused to let them move if they didn't cough up the extra $$.

Best way I can compare it on AirAsia is you paid for a Y seat and then decide to move to PE: no money, no honey baby!!!!

 

[Glider_]

I've seen the same on Scoot as per AirAsia- you're free to move seats as long as you stay within the type of seat you were allocated. FA's enforce it. I paid for the basic seat (blue seat cover) but was allocated one of their slightly better (but still economy) seats with the yellow seat cover at no cost by asking nicely at check in. During the flight I was allowed to move to any of the slightly better yellow seats, but anyone moving from a blue seat was politely told not to sit in a yellow one.

 

[jukebox333]

Guess we are lucky that dogs don't fly then.

..but rock stars still do! Off topic, but I've read more than one tale of in-flight debauchery that would make a dog's demarcation seem positively civilised.

Though those excesses seem to have reached a nadir in the 1970's, the Gallagher coughs.. er, brothers, allegedly got themselves banned from CX for disruption on a flight HKG-PER a few years back, and responded infamously that the pilot needed "stabbing in the head with a pickaxe". Years before Minecraft became popular with the kiddies, mind you...

 

[legroom]

Don't agree. Whether you pay full freight to use points, you've still paid extra to get that F ticket. The difference here is that squatters are getting the benefit of a product they have not paid for or are entitled to, which devalues the product. Moving to another seat in the same cabin is different because they have paid for a seat in that cabin and the value is still the same.

No worries.

It was a muddled post on my part, thinking about 'seat guarantee' aspect but off topic for the issue at hand.

FWIW, I'd agree with your thought in that squatters would in effect devalue the exit row premium.

Enforcing it would benefit both the airlines and those who are willing to pay (as well as being able-bodied).

If not, they should be allocated on check in as EK is doing.

 

[Pleb Status]

I agree with the point of view that the exit row seat fee should be seen as an 'advance seat selection fee'. It should therefore be treated no different to any other advance seat selection fee (of which QF has none domestically but others do).

The advance seat selection fee grants you the option to select an exit row seat before others, but not at the total exclusion of others. The Y exit row seat is not in a different class of travel (even within the Y classes) and therefore should be available to those capable of using the exit.

QF charge a $25 advance seat selection fee for all international Y seats to those with no FF status. Should these passengers ever be assigned a seat without paying the fee as some others have paid $25 for exactly the same thing?

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Cough up the $$$$ and you will.

They enforce it fully - you want that "premium" seat - you pay here and now, if not stay in your allocated seat. Seen some cranky "guests" who weren't willing to do so, but they were firm with them, and refused to let them move if they didn't cough up the extra $$.

Best way I can compare it on AirAsia is you paid for a Y seat and then decide to move to PE: no money, no honey baby!!!!

yes that's exactly what I'm talking about. I actually like it, it definitely protects those who have paid the extra from feeling ripped off.

I also love the 'quiet zone' concept that air asia have in the forward economy cabin (which costs extra). No kids (under 12) allowed, the cabin lighting is always dimmed and it's a generally more relaxing environment. Other airlines should employ a similar concept.

 

[RooFlyer]

I agree ... <snip> ... exactly the same thing?

Hang on, there are several things not right here, so lets go through it.

I agree with the point of view that the exit row seat fee should be seen as an 'advance seat selection fee'. It should therefore be treated no different to any other advance seat selection fee (of which QF has none domestically but others do).

The advance seat selection fee grants you the option to select an exit row seat before others, but not at the total exclusion of others.

I have never done it, but does choosing an exit row seat cost the same, or more, than 'advanced seat selection' of another seat, say the row behind? I've always understood that it costs more (the OP mentioned paying $90), and therefore you are paying for the exit row and its extra legroom and not for 'advance seat selection'. As I said above, you can pay extra for a PE seat as well, and that's not 'advance seat selection' but paying for a superior product.

The second para is a non sequitur. Paying for a J seat entitles you to select a J seat before but not to the total exclusion of others who may pay for, or be op-upped to a J seat.

The Y exit row seat is not in a different class of travel (even within the Y classes) and therefore should be available to those capable of using the exit.

It IS marketed as a slightly premium product over regular Y - just look at the booking engines; they all (or nearly all) mention "extra legroom". You have to pay extra for the privilege unless you seat hop or are lucky enough to get it assigned for free - just like sometimes people get moved from Y to PE and PE to J .. its at the airline's discretion to 'upgrade' you. in the case of exit rows, its a regulatory requirement that 2 seats be filled, so if no-one bites and buys, in this case the seats WILL be assigned on check-in.

QF charge a $25 advance seat selection fee for all international Y seats to those with no FF status. Should these passengers ever be assigned a seat without paying the fee as some others have paid $25 for exactly the same thing?

Advance seat selection is a completely different concept from paying for exit row benefits. You are paying for the opportunity to grab what you perceive to be a better seat position-wise not comfort-wise. Exit row seats aren't the same as other Y seats - they have demonstrably more legroom, which some people put a premium on - and pay that premium.

 

[under the radar]

slighty off topic...sorry... but some people on here are 'equating'(confusing) DOOR exit seats (a330/a380/b747) with HATCH overwing exits (b737/b767)... the two exit types have different requirements...DOOR exit rows DO NOT require a min pax number or a pre flight 'safety briefing'...please note I am just stating the facts on this particular point that some have raised (and those eager to blame F/As for not doing their job!!)

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks under the radar . Hadn't thought through the difference & worth knowing.

 

[OzEire]

2) In theory, at an exit row seat you have to pass the FA's pre-take-off "Are you willing and able to undertake those (emergency situation) duties?" test. I think you actually have to positively reply with the answer "Yes" to that question. Seat jumpers obviously haven't. If the answer to the pre-flight question isn't important, why ask it?

THIS ! Not just in theory, but in actuality!

In an emergency the exit row pax can either be a help (properly briefed, able and WILLING to open that door not freak out and...) or hinder by blocking the exit when others are trying to escape.

I disagree with the notion that exit rows can be sold as a premium product... J/Y+ with extra leg room is at the front of the cabin... the exit row "leg room" is there for escape! Exit row seating should be available to those who meet the criteria... you might argue that airline staff and frequent flyers (eg. status pax) are the most experienced and therefore the best choice for the job [well we are a FF forum!].

 

[OzEire]

slighty off topic...sorry... but some people on here are 'equating'(confusing) DOOR exit seats (a330/a380/b747) with HATCH overwing exits (b737/b767)... the two exit types have different requirements...DOOR exit rows DO NOT require a min pax number or a pre flight 'safety briefing'...please note I am just stating the facts on this particular point that some have raised (and those eager to blame F/As for not doing their job!!)

Case in point: today, my VA B738 (four hatch exits overwing) went a whole sector with 13-DEF empty... no allocated pax, no squatters.

 

[mannej]

Case in point: today, my VA B738 (four hatch exits overwing) went a whole sector with 13-DEF empty... no allocated pax, no squatters.

That shouldn't occur. I wonder if the consequences for breaching the regs are more then a slap on the wrist...

 

[JohnK]

Free for all once doors are closed.

Or if you think you have been wronged take the case up with CSM and ask to move to bulkhead before anyone else has a chance.

If you start basing seat entitlements on price then surely someone on flexible airfares should be entitled to a spare seat next to them in preference to someone on cheap airfares?

 

[will2rob]

Free for all once doors are closed.

Or if you think you have been wronged take the case up with CSM and ask to move to bulkhead before anyone else has a chance.

If you start basing seat entitlements on price then surely someone on flexible airfares should be entitled to a spare seat next to them in preference to someone on cheap airfares?

Following that logic, you'd have no problem with some squatter from Y jumping into a spare F or J seat next to you. Somehow, I don't think so.