QF cuts back on flight to London

[dmitri]

QF cancels flights in May

Has anyone been stitched up with the below flights. I just read the story in the SMH.

"As part of the latest changes, Qantas has cancelled the QF10 service from London's Heathrow Airport to Dubai on May 12, 19 and 28, as well as the QF1 flight from Dubai to the UK capital on May 13, 20 and 29.
Read more: Qantas cuts back London flights"

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Does anyone know if this has happened before? (By QF, to/from London?).

 

[mannej]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Yes it has - check the forums as they've cancelled a number to LHR recently

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Not a good look, is it?

 

[markis10]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Not a good look, is it?

Strangely every airline using DXB is scaling back next month

 

[mannej]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Not a good look, is it?

I think there is a number of factors involved with the decision.

 

[Ansett]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

I think there is a number of factors involved with the decision.

In defence of QF and yes from me that may seem strange LOL

Are these changes due to runway works or just a state of the QF business?

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Strangely every airline using DXB is scaling back next month

Sure, runway closure at DXB. But ask your TA (or some-one who is actually counting BIS) about what the change from SIN to DXB hub has had on QF bookings to London, now we are nearly a year in.

 

[Ansett]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Sure, runway closure at DXB. But ask your TA (or some-one who is actually counting BIS) about what the change from SIN to DXB hub has had on QF bookings to London, now we are nearly a year in.

Now that would make some interesting reading I am sure and would love to know the answer myself.

 

[markis10]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Sure, runway closure at DXB. But ask your TA (or some-one who is actually counting BIS) about what the change from SIN to DXB hub has had on QF bookings to London, now we are nearly a year in.

Dont need to ask my TA, poor source given they wouldnt have a holistic clue about the business let alone freight. If we look at BITREs latest data:



QF have lost 7400 from Germany, 4000 odd from Singapore, and 1900 from the UK services year against year for January. Thats 14300 roughly.
Now they have picked up 23354 to DXB and 2700 to BKK, to me that looks like a net gain with the changes of 12000 passengers!
And lets look at the cargo as well, an increase of 100T roughly to the UK.

That looks like a positive change to me, clearly not everybody wants to got to LHR, a choice they did not have when routing via SIN.

 

[Ansett]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Dont need to ask my TA, poor source given they wouldnt have a holistic clue about the business let alone freight. If we look at BITREs latest data:

View attachment 27094

QF have lost 7400 from Germany, 4000 odd from Singapore, and 1900 from the UK services year against year for January. Thats 14300 roughly.
Now they have picked up 23354 to DXB and 2700 to BKK, to me that looks like a net gain with the changes of 12000 passengers!
And lets look at the cargo as well, an increase of 100T roughly to the UK.

That looks like a positive change to me, clearly not everybody wants to got to LHR, a choice they did not have when routing via SIN.

Hi Markis

I concede that it does look more like people are using DXB as a hub however it would be interesting how much revenue is being generated to QF from passengers jumping on an EK flight from DXB o elsewhere and does this represent a net gain financially or a Net Loss?

Also what is the split in these figures between Y and J and F? The latter 2 being the most relevant

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

My TA is a medium sized one in Melbourne (AMEX, Virtuoso, Cruiseco accredited etc) , about 50-60% corporate customers, many revenue FFers like myself and also 'ordinary retail' customers. About 15 staff making bookings for people.

My particular agent, who is the 2nd most senior in the business, and exclusively corporate, says that there is a certain ~15% reduction in QF metal bookings through to Europe since the EK tie-up. Reports without prompting that a number of corporates have changed their booking pattern, with employees who were previously "bog standard QF Kangaroo Route J" now going via SIN or HKG on other carriers, mainly CX.

 

[markis10]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Hi Markis

I concede that it does look more like people are using DXB as a hub however it would be interesting how much revenue is being generated to QF from passengers jumping on an EK flight from DXB o elsewhere and does this represent a net gain financially or a Net Loss?

We will never know but I would suggest a good deal of the 23000 are jumping on EK services. It would not be a loss as QF get paid a set amount for the flight and have no costs aside from getting the pax to DXB. Same works the other way for EK passengers feeding into QF DOM.

 

[Ansett]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

We will never know but I would suggest a good deal of the 23000 are jumping on EK services. It would not be a loss as QF get paid a set amount for the flight and have no costs aside from getting the pax to DXB. Same works the other way for EK passengers feeding into QF DOM.

Thanks for that Markis however I edited my post with the following

Also what is the split in these figures between Y and J and F? The latter 2 being the most relevant

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

Dont need to ask my TA, poor source given they wouldnt have a holistic clue about the business let alone freight. If we look at BITREs latest data:

View attachment 27094

QF have lost 7400 from Germany, 4000 odd from Singapore, and 1900 from the UK services year against year for January. Thats 14300 roughly.
Now they have picked up 23354 to DXB and 2700 to BKK, to me that looks like a net gain with the changes of 12000 passengers!
And lets look at the cargo as well, an increase of 100T roughly to the UK.

That looks like a positive change to me, clearly not everybody wants to got to LHR, a choice they did not have when routing via SIN.

Given I (and the thread ) was talking about QF pax to London, I think I was pretty much on the money. If QF wants to convert itself to a freight forwarder, good luck to it.

 

[markis10]

Given I (and the thread ) was talking about QF pax to London, I think I was pretty much on the money. If QF wants to convert itself to a freight forwarder, good luck to it.

1700 passengers for the month gone, thats 50 a day, picking up 3T of freight per day easily covers that, DXB bound PAX increase is the icing.

Thanks for that Markis however I edited my post with the following

Also what is the split in these figures between Y and J and F? The latter 2 being the most relevant

That data is not available, but it works out to be 383 per flight on average.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

1700 passengers for the month gone, thats 50 a day, picking up 3T of freight per day easily covers that, DXB bound PAX increase is the icing.

<snip>.

Meh, what's 50 fewer pax a day when you can stick some bananas in the cargo hold? At least the bananas don't complain!

Contemplating the relativities of freight Vs pax is beyond me. I'm just a simple "frequent flyer" (with ~ $120k pa spend on 200K-300K km pa international flights), with a TA who tells me quite dispassionately that they are booking considerably fewer pax to LHR on QF (esp corporates on J, ) since the EK tie-up than before. They don't care who they book on - it was just a considered observation. And considering the changes to the QFF program recently to 'encourage' pax onto QF metal, and not others, I'm thinking pax flying EK rather than QF isn't the outcome they were seeking!

QF and others can spin it any way they like ("For every Freight journey"?), but I don't think this was the intended outcome, was it?

 

[ermen]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

This is the layman's observation - routing via SIN or HKG is more favourable for business. They can kill two birds with one stone by scheduling a stopover in either one of this cities to meet colleagues and / or clients.

I guess previously, people who wanted to fly *O via SIN could use QF whilst people who wanted a stopover in HKG can use CX.
Now, the former is gone, and people who want to fly via SIN are forced onto SQ. HKG hasn't really changed much, but they try to reduce the SC earn to discourage pax booking CX - not sure why.

The inherent problem is the route network for QF, and to cut SCs for partners whilst not offering a competing service is just bad in my view. It doesn't engender much loyalty...

I would say that the beneficiaries of the DXB routing are the i) leisure market (don't really care) and ii) continental traffic (one stop less). Losers are the corporates who actually give the high yielding fares...

Another way to put it - how much point to point business J traffic to Europe?

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: QF cancels flights in May

For me previously I wouldn't have flown QF to Europe as London ONLY is too restrictive.

However with EK I now have a choice of many more destinations, it would have been nice to still have the SIN option connecting to BA though!

 

[Aisle Dweller]

Just read in the SMH that Qantas is cancelling 3 of its services to London because the planes are empty. Why I am not surprised?

QF2 to London and QF2 back were always well booked and now that ill conceived alliance is coming back to bite AJ. How much longer can QF afford to have AJ at the helm. He sold out QF European routes to the Sheikh's toy airline and the consequences start showing.

The Sand Pit as an alternative stop over to Singapore or Bangkok is simply not viable nor attractive (who wants to be under Sharia law???? in a boring place) and if I want to fly the Sheikh's airline I do it all the way (not that I have any desire to do so), I do not change from QF to EK in the sand pit. I always flew QF 5 to Frankfurt and QF 6 back to Sydney with a stop over in Singapore. Can't do it with QF anymore so my wife and I booked Singapore Airlines. AJ does a great job running QF International into the ground. What is the man's true agenda? My next London flight will be with Cathy! Still get the FF points! Again I rather stop over in HK than in Dubai.