Confused at DJs seat classes

[Moopere]

Traditionally steered well clear of DJ in the past after some ordinary experiences. New look DJ though sounds interesting so decided to have another look.

Now, I'm probably completely indoctrinated in the QF world and how they do things and their naming conventions, but I'm finding the world according to DJ to be a frighteningly confusing place to be.

First up, we seem to have 4 classes of travel. Saver, Flexi, Premium Economy and Business.

So far so good.

But confusingly, DJ seems to use the "J" code to describe their PE product. So, using the myriad search engines out there, and looking for true business class product, DJ (and JQ ... but thats a different though related story) keep popping up, yet, when you really investigate whats going on you find inevitably you're looking at PE product not Business.

Given a long history of extremely variable quality DJ PE product (read: rogue planes for a starter on this subject) I've no interest in going down that road. How does one go about actually finding DJ Business class product???? Do they use a different code to describe this? Perhaps "F" ?

 

[oz_mark]

Given a long history of extremely variable quality DJ PE product (read: rogue planes for a starter on this subject) I've no interest in going down that road. How does one go about actually finding DJ Business class product???? Do they use a different code to describe this? Perhaps "F" ?

At the current point in time, business class proper exists only on the A330 fleet (such that it is). So, make sure you are on an A330.

 

[Moopere]

At the current point in time, business class proper exists only on the A330 fleet (such that it is). So, make sure you are on an A330.

Right. Thanks for the heads-up

I see JQ doing this too. "Pretending" their PE product is really J. At a certain level of confusion I just start turning off certain airlines in my searches ... is this really what the marketers of those airlines want?

On topic though, why on earth would the relaunched DJ want to label their their PE product seats as J? After all the customer annoyance of the PE / Rogue planes I'd have thought that honesty and clarity would figure more highly.

 

[Jack Melon]

Later in the year they will have business class fitted on the 737's, premium economy will be gone, and replaced with business class. Wait until the end of the year if you want business class, but you can try out the new business class by going as mentioned on the A330's Coast to Coast service.

 

[Justchecking]

Business is only found between syd-per on a330 services denoted on the schedule with a red plane next to the flight number. All other services are PE only at the moment. Flexi is just full service economy and saver is budget economy. By the end of this year DJ proposes to have real J class on their 737 fleet as well. If you are booking via the DJ website it's very obvious which flights offer business and which ones only offer PE. However when searching via TA sites those external sites only pick up the J category and also list PE flights as business fares. To be honest if you do not rate PE then you are probably best to go with a flexi fare in the exit rows. More legroom and catered as well.

 

[samh004]

Right. Thanks for the heads-up

I see JQ doing this too. "Pretending" their PE product is really J. At a certain level of confusion I just start turning off certain airlines in my searches ... is this really what the marketers of those airlines want?

But it is J/Business, that's what it's marketed as, that's what points and status credits you get. Just because it's not the same standard as EK in J doesn't mean it's not really J. Now, if you're talking about a J ticket on an A320, where there's clearly no J, I see what you mean. However, they don't sell Business on A320 routes fro, what I have seen in the booking engine.

On topic though, why on earth would the relaunched DJ want to label their their PE product seats as J? After all the customer annoyance of the PE / Rogue planes I'd have thought that honesty and clarity would figure more highly.

Because they eventually will be J, as more aircraft are converted to the newer product, but they can't just stop flying all aircraft and install the new seats at the same time.

 

[Moopere]

However when searching via TA sites those external sites only pick up the J category and also list PE flights as business fares.

Yes, indeed. This is my beef really. Why would they want to introduce confusion like this? Use C, D or I (in QF language) but never "J" as J is almost universal in its identification of a proper Business class seat.

 

[oz_mark]

Right. Thanks for the heads-up

I see JQ doing this too. "Pretending" their PE product is really J. At a certain level of confusion I just start turning off certain airlines in my searches ... is this really what the marketers of those airlines want?

On topic though, why on earth would the relaunched DJ want to label their their PE product seats as J? After all the customer annoyance of the PE / Rogue planes I'd have thought that honesty and clarity would figure more highly.

It is likely a limitation of the search engines you are using. I have only ever seen the flights listed as premium economy.

 

[Moopere]

But it is J/Business, that's what it's marketed as, that's what points and status credits you get. Just because it's not the same standard as EK in J doesn't mean it's not really J.

I won't argue the toss in relation to JQ as I just write them off entirely in any event. Its obvious that the service levels of hard/soft product for traditional J seating varies enormously even across the mature airlines. I guess in relation to individual airlines you just have to know who you are flying with.

I find it odd with DJ though as they _do_ still run PE seating and have "real" Business seating too - just its all called J, which is just weird.

For now, as suggested, I'll wait until Christmas (or later) until they have their product worked out. I'm really not into playing the lottery game with airline seating and pricing.

 

[Moopere]

It is likely a limitation of the search engines you are using. I have only ever seen the flights listed as premium economy.

1 PERDPS 21SEP11 DJ AUD 1544.00 JZDPEA STAY---/12MBK-J
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
JZDPEA PREMIUM ECONOMY RESTRICTED FARES J
JZDPEA BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND AREA 3 FOR ONE WAY FARES

NO BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER - USE PRIME

So yes, its listed as PE, just the book code is J. Going back to the DJ site shows that yes indeed, its PE. So, not false advertising, but genuinely confusing in the early stages of planning when a lot of searching is going on.

 

[Justchecking]

The classification of PE as J through the DJ booking engine might even be a side effect of the transition going on there at the moment. Preparation for the moment they do convert to full J.

 

[Ewing]

The classification of PE as J through the DJ booking engine might even be a side effect of the transition going on there at the moment. Preparation for the moment they do convert to full J.

I would suggest so.

It's definitely a new thing, as it's not too long ago (as recently as last week) that they were using W to refer to Premium Economy but now sites like E/F are showing "J".

 

[connieguy]

When you book with DJ the booking engine shows DJ PE (Y+) but the SC earned for the PE (Y+) fare are from their Business SC earning column. So it is a DJ PE (Y+) fare that earns DJ J SCs. Their business fare shows as Business under the PE (Y+) fare column. With DJ J you get a real business seat and food but no more SCs than their PE (Y+) product.

I do suspect that when they have J across most of their domestic network, the PE (Y+) earn will be from the PE (Y+) column and not from the Business column as currently happens:

^When flying with Virgin Australia, a Saver Fare = Discount Economy, a Flexi Fare = Full Fare Economy and a Premium Fare = Business.
How It Works | Velocity Rewards

 

[Justchecking]

When you book with DJ the booking engine shows DJ PE (Y+) but the SC earned for the PE (Y+) fare are from their Business SC earning column. So it is a DJ PE (Y+) fare that earns DJ J SCs. Their business fare shows as Business under the PE (Y+) fare column. With DJ J you get a real business seat and food but no more SCs than their PE (Y+) product.I do suspect that when they have J across most of their domestic network, the PE (Y+) earn will be from the PE (Y+) column and not from the Business column as currently happens:How It Works | Velocity Rewards

I would suggest that when J is available on most if their fleet, PE as an option will disappear completely.

 

[Noob]

I would suggest that when J is available on most if their fleet, PE as an option will disappear completely.

Unless they make the new row 3 of economy, and the exit row Premium Economy, like Virgin America's main cabin select - The only reason I think this may be the case is because the huge amount of legroom they have allocated to row 3.

 

[Justchecking]

Unless they make the new row 3 of economy, and the exit row Premium Economy, like Virgin America's main cabin select - The only reason I think this may be the case is because the huge amount of legroom they have allocated to row 3.

Or maybe they are just giving themselves the future option of making business 3 rows instead if two without having to re-jig the Y cabin to do so. Just take out row 3, insert divider there and add another row of business seats.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

When you book with DJ the booking engine shows DJ PE (Y+) but the SC earned for the PE (Y+) fare are from their Business SC earning column. So it is a DJ PE (Y+) fare that earns DJ J SCs. Their business fare shows as Business under the PE (Y+) fare column. With DJ J you get a real business seat and food but no more SCs than their PE (Y+) product.

I do suspect that when they have J across most of their domestic network, the PE (Y+) earn will be from the PE (Y+) column and not from the Business column as currently happens:

^When flying with Virgin Australia, a Saver Fare = Discount Economy, a Flexi Fare = Full Fare Economy and a Premium Fare = Business.
How It Works | Velocity Rewards

Well that leaves me totally confused! Are you saying if I book PE, I get J SCs? Why then, do they have the PE SC column?

 

[oz_mark]

Well that leaves me totally confused! Are you saying if I book PE, I get J SCs? Why then, do they have the PE SC column?

Why are you confused? While the table does include a Premium Economy column, there is the following stated under the table:

^When flying with Virgin Australia, a Saver Fare = Discount Economy, a Flexi Fare = Full Fare Economy and a Premium Fare = Business.

Premium Economy on, for example, V Australia use the Premium Economy column.

 

[Noob]

Or maybe they are just giving themselves the future option of making business 3 rows instead if two without having to re-jig the Y cabin to do so. Just take out row 3, insert divider there and add another row of business seats.

That's a really good point!

 

[Jack Melon]

Or maybe they are just giving themselves the future option of making business 3 rows instead if two without having to re-jig the Y cabin to do so. Just take out row 3, insert divider there and add another row of business seats.

Won't happen.