Yet another Qantas DISASTER!!

[hmmm]

Its relevant (and the reaction to my post shows I’m not alone in that thinking). Perhaps you’re too emotionally involved to look at it objectively. The letter clearly references an existing ban. They don’t impose bans by reminding people they are on a ban. You of all people should know this. In any case you say you have paperwork which says the ban has been lifted, so what are you worrying about? Carry this with you and show as required. Obviously this error was found and ignored as you indeed flew. QF can and would have cancelled your booking it it wanted to. I’m still confused why they “requested” you to do this.

Nobody knows all the facts except you. What you have presented here has been difficult to follow and has raised more questions than answers (as the posts from a variety of members have shown) - so as I said previously I don’t know what to believe, and it may must be that you’ve omitted certain details - but my/our opinion isn’t relevant. This is between you and Qantas.

Why you wouldn’t think this letter was related to your previous ban and are conflating it with a booking error on a completely separate booking in someone else’s name is beyond me, but I appreciate you’re probably thinking the worst of the situation. Again, I am not saying you’re at fault, but the logical answer is this is an automated admin error in relation to your previous ban.

As someone who has (mistakenly) said “I’m one of them. LTG and I haven’t flown Qantas in about 5 years. Domestically or internationally. Qatar now gets my business and I get a real chuckle knowing Qantas gets billed for my multiple lounge visits despite not getting a penny in revenue. Despicable airline if you ask me.” - Why did you book an EK flight as a QF revenue ticket? Its like you’ve gone out of your way to give QF a cut. And if you haven’t flown QF in 5 years, that adds further weight to the theory the ban has been reapplied.


Yeah righto. You have form in jumping to criticise QF without even reading the post in question. You didn’t rebut my post with a counter augment but merely accused me of being “Joycian” whatever TF that means. When exactly did QF make a single threat?

This is not about you. The question related to why OP continues to give QF business having been banned from them. I sure as hell wouldn’t. As far as I know you haven’t been banned so I don’t know why you’re saying “we”.

Well I don’t think it’s relevant for the reasons I’ve described. There ‘was’ a ban several years ago. It was lifted. I have flown with them a few times since it was lifted, without issue, so why would I assume that it’s been reinstated?

I also never categorically said why I received the letter. I simply assumed, given there is really no other reason why there would be one, and I certainly was never advised of a second one being issued. I think it’s you who’s making the assumptions about which ban is in play and how I should handle it. Qantas is an airline of inconsistencies. Do you honestly think me standing there with an email from 4 years ago saying the ban was revoked would change their mind? Given they already should know that, but sent the letter anyway? And off topic, but how many people would you say or think are banned by Qantas? I’d say the list is pretty small and should be relatively easy to manage, so why the mistakes? At the end of the day, you’ve read the letter. It’s not for me to second guess or question their motives or why they ‘requested’ me to cancel the ticket. But there it is. In black and white. Emirates may be notified and we REQUEST that you cancel and rebook directly with emirates.

I suspect they ‘requested’ it because they simply couldn’t touch it. I only have verbal advice from the OTA that they received a call from ‘Melanie at Qantas’ asking them to cancel the ticket with full penalties. None of which sounds ‘auto generated’ given it specified the booking reference and codeshare flights. if it was an error, where is the follow up email correcting the mistake? You think its perfectly acceptable just to say ‘we made a mistake, let’s just ignore it and assume he will understand it was a mistake? That’s just absurd!

I absolutely needed to take the matter seriously because the consequences were so extreme, from paying over $3000 for the last seat on the flight to Dubai to potentially losing a month long, prepaid trip that was months in the making.

And finally….. there’s nothing ‘mistaken’ about saying I haven’t flown Qantas in 5 years. If you knew how many flights I’ve taken in that period vs how many were with Qantas, they’d barely even register. I also see no problem with booking a codeshare flight because It still means I DIDNT flew with them and the bulk of the revenue goes to emirates anyway.

 

[drron]

Have now gone back and read the former problem of the ban. A few have said the ban must be still in place for this Ban letter to have been emailed. But in post 60 back there the OP said this-

For the record, I couldn't have cared less about the ban. it only lasted a few weeks before it was "demoted" to a warning

So not a continuing ban.
Then it has been suggested that the OP has continually using QF but back then he was a plat with LTG. And now just LTG. And how c an there have been a ban when he was able to use his LTG status to link his PNR with his partners?

Now None of us has heard the exchanges between the OP and QF. He seems to be quite blunt at times but that in itself shouldn't be the reason for a ban.And I have an experience of what might have been a similiar pax on AA. Flying from the Carribean to LGA via MIA. Our first flight was late and being in MIA no chance of quickly getting through Immigration there. I was resigned to losing our upgrades on the flight to LGA. I did ask at the transfer desk if there was a chance to still be upgraded and she said to ask the Gate Agent.

So I asked the gate agent what were my chances and she said the F cabin is full.As I turned away she then said are you drron. Why yes so I was handed our F BPs. At that a fellow standing next to us exploded as he was a Expat and number 1 on the upgrade list. He then proceeded with a profanity laced outburst at the Gate agent and AA that would have made John McEnroe blush or if today Nick. When I asked why he didn't get the upgrade she said because he always complained. So he was a serial offender yet not banned.

And even though the OP was on an 081 ticket he was flying on another airline. i just think it a bit rude QF wanted him banned from EK.

 

[Happy Dude]

i just think it a bit rude QF wanted him banned from EK.

Best bit of the whole saga! QF tell him to sod off to EK but then threaten to tell EK that he's been a naughty boy!

Machiavellian level coughry.

 

[Quickstatus]

transparent or honest

Regardless of who was right or wrong (or both), the problem here is that a lot of the information is based on hearsay and thus difficult to discern the facts

 

[RAM]

Isn't most of what is posted on AFF heresay? A bit like 'Animal Farm' perhaps? Some peoples' hearsay is more equal/credible, than others, when it comes to Q.

I may have missed something, but when posts of 'good' outcomes with Q are posted there are not calls for copies of emails/letters/Court reports to verify that the good news post is factually accurate.

Regardless of who was right or wrong (or both), the problem here is that a lot of the information is based on hearsay and thus difficult to discern the facts

True - the mainstream media seem to not bother to cover even 1/10th the recent flight cancellations leaving passengers stranded. It seemed that until some travel journalists suffered at the hand of Q Call Centres that a MSM embargo of reporting the Q CC debacle finally ended.

Seen anything about AJ's house getting a little redecoration yesterday, the US media seem to be providing so much more coverage of Q these days (I must have missed AJ's move in April into his latest 6 bedroom mansion).

 

[RooFlyer]

Isn't most of what is posted on AFF heresay? A bit like 'Animal Farm' perhaps? Some peoples' hearsay is more equal/credible, than others, when it comes to Q.

I may have missed something, but when posts of 'good' outcomes with Q are posted there are not calls for copies of emails/letters/Court reports to verify that the good news post is factually accurate.

True - the mainstream media seem to not bother to cover even 1/10th the recent flight cancellations leaving passengers stranded. It seemed that until some travel journalists suffered at the hand of Q Call Centres that a MSM embargo of reporting the Q CC debacle finally ended.

Seen anything about AJ's house getting a little redecoration yesterday, the US media seem to be providing so much more coverage of Q these days (I must have missed AJ's move in April into his latest 6 bedroom mansion).

Agree.

There is a small thread on AFF about the incident at one of Alan Joyce's houses.

 

[Quickstatus]

Isn't most of what is posted on AFF heresay

Exactly. There are always more than one side to the story, but when the second side’s story is interpreted by the first side, it becomes difficult to work out what the real story is

posts of 'good' outcomes with Q

Don’t require the other side’s story because most good stories don’t call the other side into question.

Here, the story IMO was incomplete -ie I and most commentators here felt there was more to the story - and more of the story with hearsay eventually came out in dribs and drabs and only after some questioning by various commentators which reduces the credibility of the story teller.

In forums like this hearsay is a part of forum discussions but still, it is important to tease out (if possible) the facts and recognise that all sides of the story are unavailable.

Additionally, If one side is wrong it does not mean the other side is right. Both can be wrong.

 

[hmmm]

So I have some updates……

2 weeks after successfully returning to Australia, on EK operated, QF codeshares, I see a single ‘transaction’ in my activity statement cancelling 11,000 odd points for one of the 3 codeshare flights on this itinerary. However, I know from the points balance, that more points have been deducted/cancelled, despite no relevant transaction in the activity statement. Send off an email to FF service centre and Customer Care. No response. Submit an online missing points claim and the points are recredited.

Today I receive another email from my best buddy, Mr Fleming, again, via Customer Care, advising that since I ‘disregarded’ the conditions of the 2017 ban (that I never received and didn’t know about) they’re extending the ban by two years. There was a reminder about what I can and can’t do (no Qf/jq flights, no codeshares bla bla bla) and then this little snippet about suspending my FF account and that I’m not allowed to earn or redeem any points. And then the kicker. They deducted 1,085,079 points as a ‘points adjustment due to irregular activity’.

Despite no detailed advice regarding what they were doing or going to do, it appears as though they have gone back and cancelled all the points earned since 2017. And for the record, the vast majority was via credit cards and other legitimate means other than flights.

There are some provisions in the T&C’s for them to do this, but they are quite limited in scope and particularly, only apply to ‘Qantas loyalty’ which is its own separate legal entity. There are specific terms regarding notifying a member of action they intend to take and why, and giving the member 14 days to respond. Once again, this MUST come from Qantas Loyalty and not Qantas, customer care, or corporate security and they just provide specific information regarding what they intend to do and why. This has not been done and they are therefore in beach of their own terms and conditions.

I have emailed customer care and the FF service centre advising them of this and given them 2 weeks to reinstate my illegally deducted points, that they have not provided any explanation, justification or have any authority to deduct, not to mention the fact they accepted payment for those points from the various companies that issued them to me.

I don’t see this being resolved within the next two weeks, if at all. All I see is Qf Digging their heels in even further and deeper until they try to close my account entirely. Needless to say, I will not accept this lying down and the next port of call is to get lawyers involved and hold these scoundrels to account!

The only comfort I take out of this is the fact that so many more people are now experiencing the despicable behaviour and treatment I received all those years ago. It just reinforces the fact that we can’t all be wrong and that qantas isn’t meeting the expectations it sets for itself and how it treats its customers. I was done with them 5 or so years ago, and I’ll remain done with them for the next 50!

 

[33kft]

Are you able to paste the actual T&C's of your suspension? Not sure many of us are familiar with what is or isn't allowed under these scenarios

 

[MrJetset]

Their game. Their rules. Their points. These are the T/Cs in a nutshell. How you earned the points is irrelevant.

Frankly, I find it appalling that you would knowingly defy a ban and then complain about further action as if you’re completely innocent. You fail the clean hands doctrine and your case has no merit.

You may also consider that QF read AFF, you’ve dug yourself into this hole so best to move on and abide by their ban.

 

[samh004]

Coming to this late, what was the 2017 ban actually for?

I recall a man gave AJ a lemon meringue pie to the face in 2017, was this you @hmmm?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Coming to this late, what was the 2017 ban actually for?

I recall a man gave AJ a lemon meringue pie to the face in 2017, was this you @hmmm?

This thread outlines the incident.

 

[hmmm]

Their game. Their rules. Their points. These are the T/Cs in a nutshell. How you earned the points is irrelevant.

Frankly, I find it appalling that you would knowingly defy a ban and then complain about further action as if you’re completely innocent. You fail the clean hands doctrine and your case has no merit.

You may also consider that QF read AFF, you’ve dug yourself into this hole so best to move on and abide by their ban.

Knowingly defy a ban? That I didn’t know about until 1 day before an international trip that was booked 5 months prior?

As for the clean hands test, the only thing I did ‘wrong’ was fly on a codeshare flight operated by another airline. What harm is there to them? What loss did they suffer? But the fact I was ‘able’ to defy the ban, meant it wasn’t enforceable to begin with. Neither is the illegal deduction of 1 MILLION points. And they’re MY points. Earned legitimately via their partners. They also have terms and conditions that don’t just apply to us, but also to themselves. This is my problem with Qantas in a nutshell. The seem to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want and that we must accept it. You and they are wrong in this assumption. We have consumer laws in this country for a reason and Im sorry if you think I’m wrong for expecting them to abide by the not only the rules they set, but the rules they expect us to follow.

Post automatically merged: Sep 14, 2022

Coming to this late, what was the 2017 ban actually for?

I recall a man gave AJ a lemon meringue pie to the face in 2017, was this you @hmmm?

Hahahaha. Sadly no. I’m not that guy. Lol

 

[ChrisMars]

I was aware of a temporary ban after an issue in Singapore in 2016 which, after further investigation, was downgraded to a warning. I have this in writing

If this statement made by OP earlier in this thread hold true, OP has proof that there was no ban in place, just a warning. Chances are, the ban was put in place across several department, but the downgrade was not processed across all of them, so it could be that OP's buddy, Mr Fleming, act in his good faith.

When communicating with Qantas, I would just stick with this fact: "There was no ban, and I can share proof of that." No points mentioning t&cs, crying it's not fair, or getting angry. Just get calmly the fact right and agreed by both parties.

Once they agree, I would ask to make sure that their system is up to date in every department, and that you don't want to have this sort of issues anymore. Once it is done, I would ask to get the millions points reinstated, because they were taken on the basis of a ban that was not there in the first place. Only then I would consider claiming compensations for the EK flight issue of your last trip (will be harder, might need to use legal means)

My 2 qff points, good luck.

 

[MrJetset]

For those playing at home. You can make your own conclusions

A separate $2500 claim by Mr Ivanovic involving an allegedly drunken altercation with the airline's staff at a Qantas lounge in Singapore Airport was also dismissed.

Mr Ivanovic sought the second action after he was issued with a no-fly notice due to safety concerns while waiting for a flight from Singapore to Melbourne in March last year.

He had earlier complained to the airline about being allocated the wrong seat on the flight and wanted to speak with a duty manager.

The tribunal heard that Qantas had refused to let Mr Ivanovic on board the flight as he was acting in an aggressive and abusive manner towards staff and that he had been drinking alcohol.

Between six and 12 police were called to speak with Mr Ivanovic at the time, the tribunal was told.
Mr Ivanovic told VCAT that he had experienced a number of issues with Qantas customer service in his travels that were "dismissed out of hand" and that he had "had a gutful".

VCAT member Mr Warren dismissed the second claim, agreeing with the decision by Qantas staff to issue Mr Ivanovic with a no-fly notice.

10-hour flight, 5 movies, $100: Qantas passenger takes action over broken in-flight entertainment system

How many movies can you squeeze in on an international flight?

www.theage.com.au

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess this ties in with the ‘taking qantas to NCAT’ thread… and jurisdiction for tribunals. It’s a sad state when an airline argues you cannot seek compensation because there is an international treaty at play. Basically means airlines are untouchable (not sure how compensation for a movie is relevant to the montreal convention however, which is for injury and death??)

 

[33kft]

It’s a sad state when an airline argues you cannot seek compensation because there is an international treaty at play.

Would the state-based tribunals ever be the correct forum for a dispute with a national entity? I'm not sure but my understanding was always that VCAT was for matters that were of state jurisdiction (ie property taxes, property disputes) and in fact I've found when taking the VCAT route in the past, a lot of these are even governed under very tight restrictions. For example, you can't even initiate a VCAT action against the State Revenue Office in Vic, you must be referred to VCAT by SRO, which involves pursuing their mediation process first.

 

[djkelly69]

This thread outlines the incident.

I am coming to this thread late (due to the update/bump last night), but I believe the OP has stated that the SIN lounge incident was in 2016, not 2017. The linked article above would support that theory.

So sounds like there may have been another incident in 2017 (and perhaps more based on apparent tendencies)?

 

[ellen10]

Late to this story also, but now catching up.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Would the state-based tribunals ever be the correct forum for a dispute with a national entity? I'm not sure but my understanding was always that VCAT was for matters that were of state jurisdiction (ie property taxes, property disputes) and in fact I've found when taking the VCAT route in the past, a lot of these are even governed under very tight restrictions. For example, you can't even initiate a VCAT action against the State Revenue Office in Vic, you must be referred to VCAT by SRO, which involves pursuing their mediation process first.

it can be the right forum… long discussion here: Taking Qantas to NCAT