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Why I hidden city ticket

AIRwin

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there was a case last year in Germany , Lufthansa I believe where the airline said they would chase the passenger for the difference in fare.
 

albatross710

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As the article say s"Things didn't quite go as planned for Lufthansa, as the lawsuit was dismissed by the district court in Berlin-Mitte."

Meanwhile, sure "I feel sick. I would like to fly the final leg in two months, what's the change fee please to use this last leg in two months time (within the ticket validity) ?" "Oh wow, that much I don't like that offer, I will allow it to lapse, sorry."

As long as you tell them in advance that you wont be boarding. I think if you have a boarding pass that would cause disruption as they seek out the checked-in pax.

Of course they could offer reasonable ticket terms in the first place.

Alby
 

MEL_Traveller

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Meanwhile, sure "I feel sick. I would like to fly the final leg in two months, what's the change fee please to use this last leg in two months time (within the ticket validity) ?" "Oh wow, that much I don't like that offer, I will allow it to lapse, sorry."

As long as you tell them in advance that you wont be boarding. I think if you have a boarding pass that would cause disruption as they seek out the checked-in pax.

Of course they could offer reasonable ticket terms in the first place.

Alby
You're right. Pax do get sick. Some pax can't always complete their itinerary as planned. Some pax miss flights and they forfeit the rest of the ticket.

But those are infrequent events.

Some airlines are targeting those who make a habit of this. Which is what this thread is about - the OP states they have done it half a dozen times (although maybe not this same route?)

As I've said, I'm not against hidden city ticketing. Or buying a return instead of a one way flight.

But it is not without risks.
 

albatross710

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As I've said, I'm not against hidden city ticketing.
I'm sure that even the term "hidden" is not relevant given that it is freely available via web searches. That HCT term is an airline/industry term to make people think that in some way it is a trick. It's searched on their website purchased by their rules. That's what the internet does, exposes the arbitrage.
 

MEL_Traveller

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I'm sure that even the term "hidden" is not relevant given that it is freely available via web searches. That HCT term is an airline/industry term to make people think that in some way it is a trick. It's searched on their website purchased by their rules. That's what the internet does, exposes the arbitrage.
Your arguments are the same as those who say their accounts shouldn't be closed when they get caught by the airline.

Many people don't understand how airfares are constructed, believing it is in some way linked to the distance they fly. In fact fares are usually contructed on an origin and destination basis, and that's what you're buying, a fare from A->B. To find a connection via the city you actually want to be at, and to abandon your ticket at that point is essentially a 'trick', designed to circumvent the fare between your origin and actual (rather than stated) destination.

The bottom line doesn't change. It's not illegal. It is a breach of most airlines' terms and conditions. The 'penalty' can mean closure of your FF account if they identify you.
 
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Thanks - Mmm I got back from NZ on Monday night - if there was a DSC right now I'd be tempted to visit my friends again.
It would be foolhardy to attach your FF account to any HCT such as the one Mattg described. Read the earlier posts in this thread to understand why
 

albatross710

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The bottom line doesn't change. It's not illegal. It is a breach of most airlines' terms and conditions. The 'penalty' can mean closure of your FF account if they identify you.
The QFF T&C regarding the reasons they can terminate a membership are as follows:

8. Suspension or termination of Membership
8.1 If a Member has committed a material breach of any of the Terms and Conditions or has failed to pay any money due under Qantas Frequent Flyer, or Qantas Club or Qantas Business Rewards by the due date, whether intentionally or otherwise, then Qantas Loyalty may do any one or more of the following:
(a) suspend or terminate the Member's Membership and/or the right of the Member to use the Card;
(b) reverse or cancel the Member's Qantas Points or any part thereof; or
(c) cancel or refuse to honour any Rewards (including ticketed Reward Flights), Benefits or both, that have been redeemed by or provided to the Member.
8.2 If Qantas Loyalty intends to take action under clause 8.1, it will notify the Member of its intention and the reason for that action. The Member will then have 14 days to respond to the notice by rectifying the breach (where possible) and providing any reason why Qantas should not take action (provided that Qantas Loyalty may suspend the Member's account and cancel any Rewards until any review is completed). Qantas Loyalty will review the response and advise the Member of its decision.
8.3 Membership will terminate automatically on the death of a Member. [snip]
How is there a link between a ticket fare and a QFF membership termination? What would an airline be relying upon to cancel a membership?

I just like to understand.

Qantas Conditions of Carriage

4.6 If You Are Late or Do Not Show Up for Your Flight
Refer to the fare rules of the fare you have purchased.
If you notify us in advance, in accordance with any timeframes set out in your fare rules, that you will not show up for the flight, we will not cancel any subsequent flight reservations on your Ticket.

snip

5.3 Cancellation by You
Subject to 13 or any applicable law such as the Australian Consumer Law, some fare types may be non-refundable or only partially refundable. You should choose the fare which best suits your needs and consider taking out travel insurance which covers you in case you need to cancel your reservation.

snip

6.5 Coupon Sequence
(a) The fare paid for your Ticket has been calculated on the basis of the sequence of transportation shown in your Ticket.
(b) Once travel has commenced, if you do not wish to continue the journey in that sequence, you must pay any applicable fees, taxes and fare adjustment. The Ticket will be reissued for the new fare which will be the full unrestricted fare that was applicable for the relevant class of travel on the date of original purchase for the revised itinerary.
(c) Alternatively, you may request a refund for the unused portion of your Ticket within 12 months after the original date of Ticket issue. The amount to be refunded (if any) will be the difference between the fare paid and the full unrestricted fare that would have been payable for the revised itinerary. Any applicable change fee and service fee will be deducted from that amount.
So, at the point of departure from the purchased itin the travelling could use 6.5 (c) and request a refund of the unused portion. As per 6.5 (c) and change fee will be deducted form the possible refund. Does not ask for contribution of additional $.
 
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opusman

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Doesn't seem to be any link. Not sure I'd want to risk it though.
 

MEL_Traveller

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The QFF T&C regarding the reasons they can terminate a membership are as follows:



How is there a link between a ticket fare and a QFF membership termination? What would an airline be relying upon to cancel a membership?

I just like to understand.

Qantas Conditions of Carriage



So, at the point of departure from the purchased itin the travelling could use 6.5 (c) and request a refund of the unused portion. As per 6.5 (c) and change fee will be deducted form the possible refund. Does not ask for contribution of additional $.
Granted, it doesn't look like Qantas is as explicit as some other airlines when it comes to the issue of hidden city ticketing. What they might be able to get you on would be clause 7 of the FF terms and conditions:

7. Member obligations and responsibilities
7.1 Members must not:
(a) act in any way which breaches these Terms and Conditions; or
(b) abuse or misuse Qantas Frequent Flyer, any Rewards, Benefits, facilities, services or arrangements accorded to the Member as a result of Membership including by:
(i) engaging in illegal or fraudulent activities;
(ii) supplying or attempting to supply false or misleading information, or making a misrepresentation to a Qantas Group Company or any oneworld Member Airline, Airline Partner, Qantas Interline Airline or Non-airline Partner;
(iii) selling, assigning, transferring or acquiring, or offering to sell, assign, transfer or acquire any Reward, Benefit or Qantas Points other than in accordance with these Terms and Conditions;


The argument would be - for repeat offenders, that the fare paid was not the correct fare for the route you intended to take at the time of entering the contract. Despite this, you have still used your membership for benefits such as accruing points, lounge access, and any other benefits. This may be seen as being in contravention of 7.1(b) - that is, getting benefits when you haven't paid the correct fare (and in fact, intentionally purchased an incorrect fare).

If you don't attach or use your FF benefits, or accrue points, not a lot the airline can do.
 

albatross710

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Thanks for this additional info. You are right that we should not associate a FF account with a HCT. The other issue is that once an airline cancels a membership then it's a fight to get t back. Why have the angst. Just enjoy the savings.
 

TheInsider

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You wouldn't want to do this on a return trip. as in MEL-LAX-NYC and get off in lax, then take a return trip from NYC-MEL. You're return trip WILL be cancelled, you WILL be up for a noshow fee and also as a complete flight reprice.
 

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