Why do we hold unreal expectations of Qantas??

[RichardMEL]

But economy isn’t $2800 to London.. it’s $1100. The F passenger is paying 13 times the fare, but is not getting 13 x the real estate (the forward lower deck cabin of an a380 accommodates approximately 74 economy class pax (EK), or between 12-14 first class suites, based on SQ and QF). So It’s around 6x.

You're using some interesting numbers to back your point. I'd love to know when QF was charging $1100 in Y to LHR. Currently MEL-LHR on the QF website is at $2105 (!) and that's the low season Oct-November and it goes up from there. Sale fares I have seen more the $1300ish range, but I will grant it might be possible to go $1200 or sub (other carriers definitely are in the $1000-$1200 range for sale fares low season). Right now though, the quoted fare is almost double. (F is showing $16,7k though sale fares I can recently recall have been around $10.5k-$11k).

I get you're pissed off but you can't use a random (very low ball) price to make the entire argument.. we all know in ALL classes there's a vast variation of fares available in the market (one only needs to do a fare dump on EF to see the huge range of price points and fares in a market, and that doesn't even stop to include things like RTW fares, sale fares from other carriers eg AY and the like)

And of course, what about FF redemptions? So would you be griping about the family taking up a table in the F lounge flying on AA awards in J or F with very little cash component compared to the $14k cash fare?

Yes the int J lounges are a joke (I would say in fact LHR/SIN/HKG/PER are so much better than MEL/SYD (I've not tried BNE but that looks to be far better since the revamp) and you have all rights to take your $$$$ spend over to SQ, MH, CX, TG any number of other carriers whoose lounges may offer more of what you like

I think SQ would be more your go - after all they relegate partner F pax to the F lounge in SIN, while SQ F use TPR, and Star Alliance elites get the Gold lounge (or whatever it is) which by all accounts makes a QC look good. So your mythical NZ*G family flying MI to Penang on a cheapo would be no where near you in the SQ J lounge

 

[RichardMEL]

Good grief. This thread has tangented from the notion of "unreal expectations" of QF to a fight over offering actual benefits to their passengers.... lol

 

[downgraded]

I'd love to know when QF was charging $1100 in Y to LHR

I certainly travelled to the UK on QF Y for about 1300 last year, and they were definitely emails for 1200+. It was annoying because the price was so low I couldn't justify the extra 50%-100%+ to go into the upgrade lottery, which even as a WP was rarely rewarded.

Don't forget, this year's Oct/Nov low season is now the shorter-term business booking period so fares will have risen as QF plays the odds on its supply/demand curve and load factors.

 

[RichardMEL]

I certainly travelled to the UK on QF Y for about 1300 last year, and they were definitely emails for 1200+. It was annoying because the price was so low I couldn't justify the extra 50%-100%+ to go into the upgrade lottery, which even as a WP was rarely rewarded.

Don't forget, this year's Oct/Nov low season is now the shorter-term business booking period so fares will have risen as QF plays the odds on its supply/demand curve and load factors.

yes, I agree with Oct/Nov, but even Feb/Mar and further into next year is no cheaper
I am sure saes will happen soon.. specially potentially post Brexit(if it ever happens).

but you've actually backed up my point.. $1100 is a really lowball Y sale fare to LHR in the example given.

I'd say the mean fare over the space of a year is probably closer to $1600 just at a guess.

Howeve the more general point of fares being paid on ANY route and lounges... frankly I think it's irrelevant. Certainly to the airlines its all about yield not fares paid. I mean the $199 Y fare to AKL may yield more than the $1100 fare to LHR. Even the $399 to DPS probably does (specially if it's JQ).

And that's all the airline cares about.

And for me sitting in a full lounge it's none of my business what anyone else has paid IMO. If they're entitled to be there then good for them.

 

[knightfall88]

I am torn with Qantas tactics when it comes to ensuring their profitability. On the one hand, it's shady but on the other hand as long as they exist, my points will be worth something.

A huge part of Qantas being profitable is their frequent flyer program. Qantas are selling more points than ever before. People buy up these points more than ever before too because they are under the false pretense that booking reward flights are simple, that booking a oneworld classic in business class for 330k is simple. In reality there is little availability. In reality even there is availability, the process to book is convoluted with barriers every step of the way. In reality, most people will give up and get a toaster instead.

People on this forum know how to extract the value of the points but we make up a small percentage of the population. We still struggle despite our knowledge, can you imagine what its like for an average person?

They also gouge us on domestic flights since they dominate the market.

For the actually airline product itself, there is really nothing to be proud of, it's as average as they come and there is no intent to ever be more than this. You would think from my first two points of squeezing every $$ from the customer that they would aim to improve on customer experience.

 

[auriga]

Yes the int J lounges are a joke (I would say in fact LHR/SIN/HKG/PER are so much better than MEL/SYD (I've not tried BNE but that looks to be far better since the revamp) and you have all rights to take your $$$$ spend over to SQ, MH, CX, TG any number of other carriers whoose lounges may offer more of what you like

You are right there.
The Int J lounge in Sydney is truly truly pathetic.
Not to mention having to do the walk of shame to get there!

 

[RichardMEL]

I do feel the J Suite is a pretty good hard product when ranked with others in the market. It's not the best (QR) but it's far from the worst.

But, like most things QF, it's lagged behind the market leaders such that they will fly this product for another 10 years while your SQ's have moved on. The BA new J hard product *looks* a little better, but I have not experienced it. Just as now we bemoan the Skybeds and the like as well past their due by date.. will be saying the same when the 789's are teenagers IMO.

And well "First" - *we* all know QF only has a F cabin on the 380 for the sakes of pride and to offer something in the LAX and LHR markets. It doesn't come close to the ME3 or SQ in terms of hard and soft product. Even SQ's now old suites, roughly the same vintage(a bit older actually) then QF F are much better, and the soft product blows QF away. To QF F is a token at best (which is again why in the 380 refurb it's been given a lip service touch up). We know this. The people demanding a full F service are going to SQ, EY and others. However F is a tiny part of the QF operation and they give it very little concern I think (again why the meals are more or less the same as J with just a few changes and some more exxy wines, french bubbles).

I know these things, as everyone else here does. So I base my expectations accordingly.

 

[RichardMEL]

You are right there.
The Int J lounge in Sydney is truly truly pathetic.
Not to mention having to do the walk of shame to get there!

Still better than the MEL dungeon. I remember prior to a redeye MH flight out of MEL the F lounge closed at 11pm and they (apologetically) said I should move to the J lounge. Without thinking I exclaimed "Oh no the dungeon!" and the agents laughed and admitted that yes it is a bit like that.... and it was truly depressing.

It seems more carriers are moving towards a more segmented approach where they ca. LH has for years had separate "Business" and "Senator"(ie: FFs) lounges. In DOH, QR has dedicated F lounge that your OWE's can't access, and SQ has TPR and the J lounge in SIN that's apart from the inferior FF lounge....and UA's "Polaris" lounges are ONLY for their J pax (status irrelevant) and they offer a pretty decent product (dining room, a la cate menu, decent bar selections and a very decent space in the ones I have been in). When a UA lounge uts QF to shame you know it's dire

 

[dajop]

Still better than the MEL dungeon. I remember prior to a redeye MH flight out of MEL the F lounge closed at 11pm and they (apologetically) said I should move to the J lounge. Without thinking I exclaimed "Oh no the dungeon!" and the agents laughed and admitted that yes it is a bit like that.... and it was truly depressing.

I think “truly depressing” is an exaggeration. In itself the MEL J lounge is perfectly fine as a lounge to spend an hour or so before a flight. It’s an easy fix to make it bearable - and that’s slightly better catering.

Nothing flash but a dry meat dish and a few extra items for variety would help. Last time I was there it was just slop - I really don’t know what was in it but really just gravy with a few floating bits of what looked like meat . The time before tuna bake. Admittedly at times when no QF service only contract services - MH, FJ, JQ etc. But just a slight improvement on catering would make a world of difference.

 

[RichardMEL]

And exactly the same for when I was there pre-MH. Slop. It was totally unappealing in all aspects. And yes I found that depressing.. plus the wines were pretty ordinary, but I didn't expect much there tbh. I don't expect caviar and brie but I have seen more appealing offerings in a school canteen. I I reckon things like spring rolls and like a stir fry or something like that would go down better or even some sandwiches.
Each to their own though I just find it a pretty sad offering myself (and comparing to other J lounges out there I've used in recent times like NZ at various places, TG, SQ, MH etc just not very good.. specially for a major "home" city like MEL.

 

[Borisdog]

QF sinks a lot of passenger paying ticket money into sport and other sponsorship. I have no issue with QF voicing an opinion on athletes who are happy to take the money and not be held accountable for bad behavior or mouthing off.

There's voicing an opinion and then there's pushing a personal agenda utterly unrelated to the core business.

 

[Borisdog]

So the choice for Qantas is to either have a family of four in jetsar economy to bali, or a single $14k first class passenger to london.

If they choose the former, don’t come cap in hand to the government seeking taxpayer guarantees.

Is your opinion the same for the multitude of other multi-nationals that do likewise? Not the least of which are the procession of car manufacturers who then treated us like the suckers we are. And don't start me on Darwin Port.

 

[amaroo]

(I've not tried BNE but that looks to be far better since the revamp)

Don't waste your time - more cesspit than zoo.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Is your opinion the same for the multitude of other multi-nationals that do likewise? Not the least of which are the procession of car manufacturers who then treated us like the suckers we are. And don't start me on Darwin Port.

Sure. And I mentioned so in a post a couple pages back.

 

[BAM1748]

There's voicing an opinion and then there's pushing a personal agenda utterly unrelated to the core business.

He leads his company and guides its values. The core business is illrevent.

Integrity, decency and respect are some pretty core values in any business especially one like an airline.

 

[amaroo]

He leads his company and guides its values. The core business is illrevent.

Integrity, decency and respect are some pretty core values in any business especially one like an airline.

I'm more concerned about safety. Not much else matters for an airline.

 

[dajop]

I'm more concerned about safety. Not much else matters for an airline.

I'd suggest safety is first, but if not much else mattered then these forums, and in fact this very website would not even exist.

 

[BAM1748]

I'm more concerned about safety. Not much else matters for an airline.

Safety is always the most important thing, and for any airlines goes without saying. No compromise there.

QF have to date done very well on the safety front. If nothing else matters then do we need a thread on QF expectations.

 

[Borisdog]

He leads his company and guides its values. The core business is illrevent.

Integrity, decency and respect are some pretty core values in any business especially one like an airline.

I don't disagree with you in the main, but I have very strong views on what and why businesses "promote" re agendas. This thread, however, isn't the place for that discussion

 

[amaroo]

Safety is always the most important thing, and for any airlines goes without saying. No compromise there.

QF have to date done very well on the safety front. If nothing else matters then do we need a thread on QF expectations.

Completely agree.