Where to now - life after LTG and P1

[marki]

For a moment there I was thinking of a high up bar i.e. somewhere in the mountains lol

For what it's worth I think QF should offer a lifetime platinum benefit. I don't mind if the bar is very high but there should be something to aim for and some special recognition of those that have actually flown a lot with the airline. A very high number of SCs or perhaps, say, 10 years as a P1 t qualify.

unfortunately I don't see it happening as QF doesn't see itself or rate as an international carrier anymore. P1 (which has been largely a fail, to me at least) gets no recognition on other carriers, and the CL system is so flawed (domestic focus, open to people who in my experience direct no additional service to QF -- I know at least 60 CLs but acknowledge that may not be a great sample) but is regarded as the priority for QF. Makes little sense to me.

Cutback significantly on the CL membership and convert that to a similar number of lifetime platinum memberships for people who have genuinely contributed to QF would be my personal preference!

 

[JohnK]

Why start off scratch somewhere else?

My preference is Qantas Platinum over Lifetime Gold while there is still a slight difference between the two.

 

[Mal]

Well I ditched Qantas soon after earning LTG, and moved to BA (Being based in London does mean there are home carrier benefits for BA membership). Didn't take too long to get my BA Gold (while using the benefits of QF WP). Now easily renewing BA Gold each year. Had my sight on BA GGL this year, but am slightly stuck at half way there due to work requirements meaning serious travel is off the cards at the moment.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Why start off scratch somewhere else?

My preference is Qantas Platinum over Lifetime Gold while there is still a slight difference between the two.

I did hear of one airline considering a match where if you cancelled your FF membership with one airline they would match you to the same level (lifetime etc..)
I've also heard of points matching and a number of other creative strategies!

If you have $100k+ year in flight spend and/or 2m+ points from CC/year - you can generally negotiate a deal if you can talk with someone who has a clue.

 

[RichardMEL]

I did hear of one airline considering a match where if you cancelled your FF membership with one airline they would match you to the same level (lifetime etc..)
I've also heard of points matching and a number of other creative strategies!

If you have $100k+ year in flight spend and/or 2m+ points from CC/year - you can generally negotiate a deal if you can talk with someone who has a clue.

Doesn't seem like too many would qualify here? Maybe TonyHancock?

but seriously I think to get QF to do something extra it might be a good idea to whisper at John Borghetti/VA to get THEM to introduce such things there. QF will soon follow

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Doesn't seem like too many would qualify here? Maybe TonyHancock?

but seriously I think to get QF to do something extra it might be a good idea to whisper at John Borghetti/VA to get THEM to introduce such things there. QF will soon follow

Quite the opposite. There is zero innovation in the loyalty space (worldwide) because programs are scared if they bring in a new benefit or change it will be copied and therefore wasted effort.

AA for example have flat out said there's no use in doing something new because DL/UA "would copy it". Soon instead they copy the others.

My sources at velocity have the same thinking in that there's no use as qantas would do it the next day. There are smart people who want to bring in new innovations at both QF and VA but ultimately as hey are large companies that need approval - changes take time and more often than not get rejected as some short sighted dick up the food chain doesn't understand that innovation = revenue. This means the people who can have greatest effect in an organisation never have their ideas heard by the top as they are killed off before it reaches that level.

We won't see sweeping changes in Australia's FFPs and as much as JB, Karl and the rest of senior velocity folks want it to happen. The system simply isn't setup to foster this type of innovation.

 

[amaroo]

Terrible shame QFF hasn't copied VA's "family pooling"

 

[RichardMEL]

TTR - well I never said it *would* happen !!

agree totally. know one or two folks in loyalty at various US airlines and what you're saying is true. This is also why AA wussed out with just adding a 75k level ("Platinum Pro") and copied what UA/DL do revenue wise. They held out, but joined the pack rather than making their own program, if even revenue based, different in any meaningful way (exception possibly being the rolling EQD valuation on upgrade priority)

sadly.

What is almost interesting is that VA don't even have a LTS/LTG program (or do they now?)

 

[dfcatch]

Quite the opposite. There is zero innovation in the loyalty space (worldwide) because programs are scared if they bring in a new benefit or change it will be copied and therefore wasted effort.

AA for example have flat out said there's no use in doing something new because DL/UA "would copy it". Soon instead they copy the others.

My sources at velocity have the same thinking in that there's no use as qantas would do it the next day. There are smart people who want to bring in new innovations at both QF and VA but ultimately as hey are large companies that need approval - changes take time and more often than not get rejected as some short sighted dick up the food chain doesn't understand that innovation = revenue. This means the people who can have greatest effect in an organisation never have their ideas heard by the top as they are killed off before it reaches that level.

We won't see sweeping changes in Australia's FFPs and as much as JB, Karl and the rest of senior velocity folks want it to happen. The system simply isn't setup to foster this type of innovation.

I tend to concur....

I have faith in trippin's sources ðŸ

 

[dfcatch]

TTR - well I never said it *would* happen !!

agree totally. know one or two folks in loyalty at various US airlines and what you're saying is true. This is also why AA wussed out with just adding a 75k level ("Platinum Pro") and copied what UA/DL do revenue wise. They held out, but joined the pack rather than making their own program, if even revenue based, different in any meaningful way (exception possibly being the rolling EQD valuation on upgrade priority)

sadly.

What is almost interesting is that VA don't even have a LTS/LTG program (or do they now?)

Agree totally.

VA - they don't at this time.....

 

[trippin_the_rift]

TTR - well I never said it *would* happen !!

What is almost interesting is that VA don't even have a LTS/LTG program (or do they now?)

Agree totally.

VA - they don't at this time.....

I could have this conversation all day long .....

Richard, I wouldn't be surprised if QFF began to put a sunset on new lifetime status over the coming years. Modelling around lifetime status and how this affects customer spend, engagement and ultimately LTV surely paints a picture of diminishing returns. Then there's other areas of the business which suffer from lifetime levels, certain customer segments which feel alienated, others which don't know/don't care and the lost opportunity of keeping a customer on the treadmill.

I believe VA stated they picked up a bunch of QFF elites with lifetime status who choose to fly VA and QF as the fallback position.

In my opinion the only reason VA would introduce lifetime status is if QF stopped giving it out, and even then 'lifetime status' wouldn't be as we think about it today. It could take on a new shape and form which gives significant recognition for past loyalty while still engineered with game mechanics to drive ongoing revenue. This could form part of a new digital strategy which underpins new growth from an innovation perspective.

 

[JohnK]

Terrible shame QFF hasn't copied VA's "family pooling"

Not enough Platinum/Golds already?

 

[amaroo]

Not enough Platinum/Golds already?

Who cares about the riffraff ... I'd make P100 :mrgreen:

 

[RichardMEL]

In my opinion the only reason VA would introduce lifetime status is if QF stopped giving it out, and even then 'lifetime status' wouldn't be as we think about it today. It could take on a new shape and form which gives significant recognition for past loyalty while still engineered with game mechanics to drive ongoing revenue. This could form part of a new digital strategy which underpins new growth from an innovation perspective.

I like the idea. This would be some "evolution" of the product born from the pressure of more and more LT status pax who aren't generating revenue.

One could imagine they could do cough things like introduce a 4~ requirement to keep it, or at least to be able to use it or something, but that wouldn't go down well.

Thinking on this I could say a day where bundled and targeted incentives could be produced to drive revenue yet keep loyalty...

such as:

- reduced SC earn requirements to make the next tier up (LTS->Gold, LTG->Plat)
- reduced points award offers on routes to drive QFF spend (and the associated fines)
- targeted incentives to induce more CURRENT flying (ie: revenue) - maybe discounted points buy offers (revenue and implies a spend of those points at some point), or offering some sort of bonus for paid flying - maybe an extra bonus points earn,, or something

I can certainly understand the dilemma posted by LT customers (certainly this is partly what drove the cessation of LT club memberships both at QF and from the US equivalents years back - both crowding and the loss of that ongoing revenue stream).


It all makes sense. Essentially someone with LT status but no spend is a liability to the loyalty scheme - maybe not much of one if you don't use it during a year, but it still is one on paper.

 

[Hvr]

One could imagine they could do cough things like introduce a 4~ requirement to keep it, or at least to be able to use it or something, but that wouldn't go down well.

<snip>

The most cough act would be to require that lifetime status is only achieved via Qantas flights i.e. metal and flight number.

As for VA I doubt they will introduce lifetime status and retain family pooling.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I like the idea. This would be some "evolution" of the product born from the pressure of more and more LT status pax who aren't generating revenue.

..........

I can certainly understand the dilemma posted by LT customers (certainly this is partly what drove the cessation of LT club memberships both at QF and from the US equivalents years back - both crowding and the loss of that ongoing revenue stream).


It all makes sense. Essentially someone with LT status but no spend is a liability to the loyalty scheme - maybe not much of one if you don't use it during a year, but it still is one on paper.

I tend to have an issue with giving out too much IP for free so I'll stop short of suggesting what I would do

However one thing I would do is retire the existing LTx program for new entrants from say June 30, 2017 and replace it with something more compelling which would meet needs of more customer segments. Those under the old (current) LTx program to stay as is with 2 minor tweaks to make it more compelling without the potential loss of revenue by flat out giving xx_ status credits for free each anniversary.

I would then take steps to protect the process to lock competing programs out of copying it and force them to do their own hard work.

Like as we're seeing OTAs working on innovative new loyalty programs - this space is ripe for disruption (in a good way) which will drive newer, higher revenue multiples from new sources as programs are able to transition into a new form of loyalty marketing. Reminds me of a post I made last week on this subject : http://bit.ly/28IsB9R

This loyalty product improvement is even more needed as the gravy train from banks will dry up in Australia very soon...

The most cough act would be to require that lifetime status is only achieved via Qantas flights i.e. metal and flight number.

They should have brought this in years ago

 

[Danger]

Hi there everyone,

this is mainly a thread/post to express exasperation.

Due to a combination of fortuitous work/life circumstances, I have found myself in a situation I never believed possible. This year by August I will reach the dizzy heights of P1 and LTG. But I still have heaps of necessary travel for the last few months of the year. I am truly at a loss.

Previously I had a clear goal when organizing travel to maximize QF SC, but now I have no such target. QF "points" are, IMHO, great to have, but due to their fees for redemptions, not really that valuable anyway. I am a devout lover of Qantas. Truly. But given my situation, I see a failing in their FF system where there is no longer anything to aim for.

I am also Star Alliance Gold for the foreseeable future. And I wont touch Skyteam.

So what do I do? What do I aspire for? How can QF have a system that leaves a very frequent flyer with no further gain??

Just venting. I know the reality that there is nothing left.

I would absolutely be looking at Alaska Mileage Plan. They seem to have a solid range of airline partners, I think they've indicated they are not going revenue based in the near term and their earn and burn rates appear decent. I believe they also have a status match on at the moment.

If I was still doing the flying I was doing 12 months ago, I would 100% be crediting to AS over AA today.

 

[medhead]

I like the idea. This would be some "evolution" of the product born from the pressure of more and more LT status pax who aren't generating revenue.

One could imagine they could do cough things like introduce a 4~ requirement to keep it, or at least to be able to use it or something, but that wouldn't go down well.

I tend to have an issue with giving out too much IP for free so I'll stop short of suggesting what I would do

However one thing I would do is retire the existing LTx program for new entrants from say June 30, 2017 and replace it with something more compelling which would meet needs of more customer segments. Those under the old (current) LTx program to stay as is with 2 minor tweaks to make it more compelling without the potential loss of revenue by flat out giving xx_ status credits for free each anniversary.

I would then take steps to protect the process to lock competing programs out of copying it and force them to do their own hard work.

Like as we're seeing OTAs working on innovative new loyalty programs - this space is ripe for disruption (in a good way) which will drive newer, higher revenue multiples from new sources as programs are able to transition into a new form of loyalty marketing. Reminds me of a post I made last week on this subject : http://bit.ly/28IsB9R

This loyalty product improvement is even more needed as the gravy train from banks will dry up in Australia very soon...

They should have brought this in years ago

I'm strugging with this concept that a LTx person who is not flying but getting xx_ SC per year (that's not how it works but anyway) is going to cost Qantas anything. They aren't flying, and therefore aren't using services.
In any case having to get 4x$80 flights is hardly a big ask.

But I agree that programs could refocus on long term loyalty - a starting point might be to have the loyalty bonus become about more than loyalty for this year.

 

[mviy]

I wouldn't be surprised if QFF began to put a sunset on new lifetime status over the coming years.

I hope not. For some of those of us for whom LTG would take decades to earn it's one of the reasons to stay loyal. Maybe around when I retire if LTG is still available I will be able to attain that.