Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[aamslfc]

Looks like a curfew buster as a way to use a spare aircraft.

cough frequency, cough timings for onward connections, cough pricing, all on a Crash 8.

I'd have thought WSI would lead to some more options and competitive pricing, but airlines clearly aren't taking it seriously at all.

 

[jase05]

Looks like a curfew buster as a way to use a spare aircraft.

cough frequency, cough timings for onward connections, cough pricing, all on a Crash 8.

I'd have thought WSI would lead to some more options and competitive pricing, but airlines clearly aren't taking it seriously at all.

People need to lower their expectations a bit. It’s been built with the future in mind. Might not be substantial passenger services for years

 

[LionKing]

It doesn't at all (though will align with some flights to other Pacific islands), but they'd know that, so presumably they're counting on people going on holiday from Western Sydney or VFR traffic. And/or subsidies.

But it will connect to Suva well.

 

[aamslfc]

People need to lower their expectations a bit. It’s been built with the future in mind. Might not be substantial passenger services for years

I appreciate you have to promote the talking points as someone who works there, but I'd only buy the "future" line if this thing had been built in 86/96/06 rather than 2026.

A dozen gates and a single runway, with 2-3 token flights a day for the foreseeable, supported by garbage buses and a token railway line to nowhere that'll be lucky to open this decade. It's great for cargo, but the self-loading cargo won't be flocking there in droves, perhaps forever.

The original business case expected SYD to reach capacity by 2040, and the current WSI design to reach capacity by 2050... except that's now when most of the HSR is supposed to be built and operational, which will increase capacity at the existing East Coast airports.

So now the airport is reliant upon pax coming on HSR, and the HSR 1C business case was hugely dependent on driving pax traffic to WSI to make both the HSR and WSI precinct work. This for an airport whose original business case estimated pax benefits "based on half the costs of travelling to the next available airport, Canberra Airport".

I'm not a betting man, but I suspect WSI will never reach the original pie-in-the-sky estimates or achieve the grand plans originally envisaged when this was greenlit last decade. Some future, indeed.

 

[jase05]

I appreciate you have to promote the talking points as someone who works there, but I'd only buy the "future" line if this thing had been built in 86/96/06 rather than 2026.

A dozen gates and a single runway, with 2-3 token flights a day for the foreseeable, supported by garbage buses and a token railway line to nowhere that'll be lucky to open this decade.

The original business case expected SYD to reach capacity by 2040, and the current WSI design to reach capacity by 2050... except that's now when most of the HSR is supposed to built and operational, which will increase capacity at the existing East Coast airports.

So now the airport is reliant upon pax coming on HSR, and the HSR 1C business case was hugely dependent on driving pax traffic to WSI to make both the HSR and WSI precinct work. This for an airport whose original business case

I don’t work there so happy to call it for what it is. People seem to be shocked or surprised that WSI isn’t seeing 200 flights per day from day 1. It’s a very slow burn and will take years to reach any meaningful passenger numbers. Was always going to predominantly freight for the first few years

 

[Melburnian1]

I don’t work there so happy to call it for what it is. People seem to be shocked or surprised that WSI isn’t seeing 200 flights per day from day 1. It’s a very slow burn and will take years to reach any meaningful passenger numbers. Was always going to predominantly freight for the first few years

WSI is greatly deficient to what we really need in Australia: a high speed rail network linking Melbourne, Shepparton, Albury, Canberra, Sydney, Newcastle, Coffs Harbour, Ballina, Coolangatta/Surfers Paradise and Brisbane.

We are so far behind much of Asia, Europe and even as very recently pointed out by a media article, North Africa's Morocco it isn't funny. Yet so many Australians appear to believe we are an 'advanced' nation.

Air freight can be valuable and time sensitive items but volumes are puny compared to freight moved by rail and road.

 

[SeatBackForward]

People need to lower their expectations a bit. It’s been built with the future in mind. Might not be substantial passenger services for years

It seems people want to think WSI has been built like Chek Lap Kok was built to replace Kai Tak as HKG airport!

 

[Warragul]

We are so far behind much of Asia, Europe and even as very recently pointed out by a media article, North Africa's Morocco it isn't funny

I reckon if foreign governments said we'll pay over 70% of the cost, governments here would sign up to HSR too. ( France and Gulf states in Morocco's case)

 

[elanshin]

Im surprised we're back to this discussion again. Airport isn't even officially open to passenger traffic yet. If this was the schedule in 2030 then theres potential problems.

Give it a few years see what the situation shakes out. Metro gets up and running. Maybe by then the next phase of the metro builds would be announced.

Personally i think WSI will continue to grow as will SYD (and Sydney city itself). The 50 year vision has been laid out for Sydney and WSI would be part of making the western City vision come to life.

 

[downgraded]

People need to lower their expectations a bit. It’s been built with the future in mind. Might not be substantial passenger services for years

I flew in and out of Stansted in the early 90s, it was a vast cavern of a terminal with almost no flights and it did have a railway. It took years/decades to grow but is now chockers with LCCs but also gets 3ME and others as well. I doubt the train is the main land transport to it either.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Looks like a curfew buster as a way to use a spare aircraft.

cough frequency, cough timings for onward connections, cough pricing, all on a Crash 8.

I'd have thought WSI would lead to some more options and competitive pricing, but airlines clearly aren't taking it seriously at all.

We don't tend to swear on this forum. Generally we have slightly better manners.

 

[Harrison_133]

Fiji Airways have filed schedules for Western Sydney.

These flights are on sale.

And they've already been removed from sale...

 

[Melburnian1]

We don't tend to swear on this forum. Generally we have slightly better manners.

I will leave it to linguists to determine if the 's' word remains vulgar or a swear word, but at least one mainstream newspaper has included the full word recently in an article.

Previously, many outlets would write it as 's--t' or similar.

 

[RooFlyer]

A dozen gates and a single runway, with 2-3 token flights a day for the foreseeable, supported by garbage buses and a token railway line to nowhere that'll be lucky to open this decade. It's great for cargo, but the self-loading cargo won't be flocking there in droves, perhaps forever.

The flaws in this type of argument have been pointed out so many times already in this thread I need not repeat them, yet again.

The original business case expected SYD to reach capacity by 2040, and the current WSI design to reach capacity by 2050... except that's now when most of the HSR is supposed to be built and operational, which will increase capacity at the existing East Coast airports.

HSR? You're kidding, right? Talk about 'pie in the sky'

 

[Saab34]

The self loading cargo especially from Friday to Monday will be flocking to WSI when Mascot fares are priced through the roof. And that’s last minute travel so I’d expect WSI ops to fill up quickly at the last moment.

Last minute fares into Mascot at the moment are just stupid. Have a look at the triangle later this week. It won’t take much for WSI to pick up on the volume with such prices over the fence.

 

[aamslfc]

It's interesting seeing the various motherhood statements and comparisons being offered to justify WSI, and there is certainly some validity to looking at how the likes of Stansted et al grew, but there's also quite a bit of revisionism going on.

The WSI business case provides a conservative passenger estimate starting with a passenger level of around 3 million in the first year after opening, rising to almost 10 million within 5 years, and almost on par with Mascot by the early 2050s.

The Joint Study which led to the business case instead predicted 5 million per annum by 2035, of which half would be transfers from Mascot, and half from the local catchment. Which, funnily enough, would increase capacity at Mascot, which would defeat the purpose of the whole exercise.

And that's before HSR 1A/B/C comes in towards the end of that decade (yes, HSR came a decade after the WSI business case, but HSR has been talked about even longer than Badgerys!).

Business NSW also noted that "business travel is the most common reason for domestic air travel into and out of Western Sydney"... so, makes sense that LCCs are a primary focus for this airport?

Ultimately, it speaks volumes that:

1. the current airport operator wanted absolutely nothing to do with building a new one
2. our national airline (and its subsidiary) are doing the bare minimum to avoid criticism
3. their main competitor isn't remotely interested
4. the big foreign carriers aren't chomping at the bit to shift across and beat the curfew
5. there's no push from governments to amend current agreements and/or incentivise traffic
6. all the talking points now predict a 'slow start' and gloss over the original statements

I hope I'm wrong - and will gladly eat my hat (if I can find one) this time next decade if I'm proven to be wrong - but let's not pretend that the current situation is even remotely what the original business cases, media releases, airport leadership, or governments expected.

We don't tend to swear on this forum. Generally we have slightly better manners.

Unless you're the warden of internet jail, you can spare me the faux moral outrage.

And they've already been removed from sale...

Perhaps a test run published in error before a proper launch? Bit odd that.

The flaws in this type of argument have been pointed out so many times already in this thread I need not repeat them, yet again.

From what I see, they haven't. But do enlighten me.

HSR? You're kidding, right? Talk about 'pie in the sky'

We wouldn't have needed business cases galore or wasted billions on WSI if we'd built a proper HSR in the first place.

Not to mention the benefits of an east coast HSR are significantly greater, and spread across entire regions, versus the rather centralised benefits of an airport complex in Western Sydney.

 

[RooFlyer]

From what I see, they haven't. But do enlighten me.

Read the thread yourself. Yes, its now a long one, but you'll enjoy it.

We wouldn't have needed business cases galore or wasted billions on WSI if we'd built a proper HSR in the first place.

Not to mention the benefits of an east coast HSR are significantly greater, and spread across entire regions, versus the rather centralised benefits of an airport complex in Western Sydney.

So ... how's that HSR you keep talking about actually going? Newcastle to Gosford (gasp!), Newcastle to Sydney (swoon!) etc - both completions by late 2030s

And we don't need wardens of internet jail to keep discussion civil. If that's beyond you, maybe take your HSR elsewhere?