Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[moa999]

WSI Metro further delayed. 2028 opening now looking likely.

Warnings that metro rail line to Sydney’s new airport is set to be delayed again

Confidential documents reveal the project is running late on a vast range of work, from switching on power at stations to receiving new European-built trains.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SeatBackForward]

WSI Metro further delayed. 2028 opening now looking likely.

Warnings that metro rail line to Sydney’s new airport is set to be delayed again

Confidential documents reveal the project is running late on a vast range of work, from switching on power at stations to receiving new European-built trains.

www.smh.com.au

The high price of lowest bidders hey.

 

[Saab34]

You always need to add 2-3 years into any project, we never get anything here done on time or on budget. It’s great for suppliers and those who won the contract.

 

[SeatBackForward]

You always need to add 2-3 years into any project, we never get anything here done on time or on budget

I'm close to the industry, so other than being careful what I say...it's rarely the people involved in delivering the project that cause these problems. Politicians are always in a rush - there's two significant points that they're interested in:

1. Announcing the project, ideally a ceremonial sod turning involving an oversized shovel, but oversized cheques or signing of a contract will suffice
2. Completion usually a ribbon cutting or the "look how normal I am using this piece of infrastructure" surrounded by camera crews..

The rush for the above mean that the actual scope of a project is never really finalised and defined, which means the cost to deliver it and the time take never settle ie. a moving target, so unsurprisingly everything only ever takes longer and costs more. It's not uncommon to start building it before the design is actually accepted.

There is a remedy, unfortunately it means slowing down. - taking the time to better define and better design these projects. In the *good old days* the design or such projects was a completely different project of its own, but these days the Build, own, operate & transfer model encourages the overlapping of much more of those elements than would have been done in decades past.

I'm a bit of a fan of historic engineering projects, and I often think the way things were done 200yrs ago, at the height of colonial engineering was truly a golden age, where every cent wasn't squeezed out and the intent was to build things that actually served their purpose. And they achieved it in an era without modern technology, communication etc. often designing , manufacturing and the building things continents apart.

 

[Aeryn]

Listening to spotify over the weekend, every second advert was a warning about airport noise for new flight paths (i.e late night/ early am departures/arrivals) from WSI starting to operate.

 

[RooFlyer]

Listening to spotify over the weekend, every second advert was a warning about airport noise for new flight paths (i.e late night/ early am departures/arrivals) from WSI starting to operate.

Shouldn’t be a problem as everyone reckons it’s going to be a failure . Regarding those flightpaths and noise, do you apply the same logic as you apply to the flight paths and noise out of Sydney Airport?

I went through Sydney International this morning and I had forgotten what a nightmare the whole place is..

From the queue of traffic just to drive up to departures and I see they have to now divert half the traffic to the lower level now in the morning. Even so we were about 10 minutes on the ramp.

The check-in area absolutely jammed from one end to the other.

But that was nothing compared to the terminal concourse. Connecting mazes of little nooks and crannies all stuffed with people shoulder to shoulder. (except in the high end brand name shops of course). The maintenance cost must be astronomical. All the differing roof profiles, fans ducts, air-conditioning, the maze of floors to be cleaned.

Even even the Qantas first lounge was absolutely jampacked. People forced to have breakfast in the lounge chairs right to either end of the space.

We boarded at a bus gate. Even that was a cough show. They don’t let you down to the lower level. They hold everyone in a pen at the top absolutely crammed, blocking the corridors to the other gates and then they let you down the escalator to the boarding gates and onto a bus. It looked like there were about six planes being boarded by buses - we passed them on the way to the very far end next to the new Link Road.

Sydney needs WSI. Sydney International Airport has become a cough airport. It’s too crowded. The layout after multiple additions is a nightmare. It will stay like that forever unless someone gets the bulldozers out and build a new terminal somewhere. But even that won’t fix the capacity issue.

Thank goodness someone had the foresight to do WSI. Without it what do you think Sydney airport would look like in 20 years?

 

[Chatswood]

You always need to add 2-3 years into any project, we never get anything here done on time or on budget. It’s great for suppliers and those who won the contract.

Metro Northwest was $900m under budget and opened on time, one of the rare exceptions to infrastructure in NSW.

WSI Metro’s progress was not helped by the Metro review which the new government commissioned when they came to power which effectively put a go-slow on existing projects, or Webuild’s financial troubles. It should be noted that the Review did praise the Sydney Metro Board’s capability, only for it to be dissolved a year later.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Metro Northwest was $900m under budget and opened on time, one of the rare exceptions to infrastructure in NSW.

And staying close to airports - Rozelle Interchange and Sydney Gateway, both probably important access routes to SYD were also considered as delivered successfully.

 

[Aeryn]

Regarding those flightpaths and noise, do you apply the same logic as you apply to the flight paths and noise out of Sydney Airport?

Nothing is changing wrt SYD flight noise, a known quantity and not an issue. I dont think a curfew is needed and yes i have lived under SYD flight path.

But clearly WSI are concerned about potential complaints or they wouldnt be on front foot with mass advertising re whats about to happen.

As to sucess, the immediate noise will be from freight not tied at all to passenger patronage given hardly any flights.

No idea what the rest of your rant had to do with flight path noise advertising. Locals know to avoid flying on a Monday morning if possible, also know to get a drop off at arrivals to avoid the congestion at departures.

I dont visit airport shops at any airport complete rip off, duty free is more expensive than sale prices at a regular store plus claim tax back. In my over 100 flights out of SYD in last decade only one has not used an aero bridge (remote stand for dash 8), IME remote stands far more common at LHR.

So hate away at SYD it works fine for me.

 

[Warragul]

Locals know to avoid flying on a Monday morning if possible, also know to get a drop off at arrivals to avoid the congestion at departures.

Great and the many who aren't blessed with local knowledge are left bewildered (or concerned if not "match fit") by going to the arrivals concourse when departing.

 

[Aeryn]

Great and the many who aren't blessed with local knowledge are left bewildered (or concerned if not "match fit") by going to the arrivals concourse when departing.

Well Roo was coming from CBD at peak departure time, he would have been best to take the train.

Train is more expensive than Uber if more than one person. But for a solo traveller from city not taking train in Monday peak is a mistake. If he was at DH, light rail to Central then train would have been cheaper and quicker solo - that isnt exactly insider info.

Avoiding Monday morning departures is pretty well known from all the capital city airports - domestic golden traingle there are extra flights on Mondays, International is most popular day for Business travellers so always most crowded, flights generally cheaper from Tues too.

A good uber/HC/taxi driver also knows how to bypass the worst of tge departures traffic.

 

[Warragul]

But one shouldn't need to bear in mind various dot points about where to go and what the busy times are just to get to the airport. Navigating ones way through an airport I would concur. If being dropped off at arrivals is seen as semi normal, then something is amiss with capacity or the design of the departures drop off process.
Having worked in that terminal building, the road ingress and egress has been problematic for years, maybe another airprort is needed to ease some of that pressure - oh hang on.......

 

[Aeryn]

Except WSI is adding capacity not taking any capacity away from SYD. To my knowledge no single airline has announced moving their pax flights from SYD to WSI.

So WSI will do nothing to solve Roos complaint re shops or drop off at SYD. I offered real suggestion for avoiding the issues he had at SYD.

Now a lot of the congestion at SYD and ime MEL is just as bad - its people saying lengthy good byes at drop off instead of just dropping and go. Need to recruit the ruthlessNorth Sydney parking cops to enforce 30 secs drop offs.

 

[SYD]

But one shouldn't need to bear in mind various dot points about where to go and what the busy times are just to get to the airport. Navigating ones way through an airport I would concur. If being dropped off at arrivals is seen as semi normal, then something is amiss with capacity or the design of the departures drop off process.

The one time (of many many T1 departures) that my ride was shunted toward the carpark, we were directed up to the “departure” level - so it was a short walk across the pedestrian Xing to the terminal.

Having worked in that terminal building, the road ingress and egress has been problematic for years,

Which is why they’ve done massive changes as part of the airport / westconnex - both T1 and T2/3.

Unfortunately, with still only a single lane up ramp does mean that those coming from the south are more likely to get shunted around to the carpark. I’m surprised they’re dropping off at “arrivals”. I suspect they’re not supposed to be doing that and were just trying to dodge the higher floor carpark drop off - which can be quicker than up the ramp during peak hour.

As for inside T1, whilst it doesn’t have the benefit of being a contemporary new build the improvements over the last decade - including opening up the main (QF) departures area is light years ahead of the dingy hole that is MEL T2.

Eventually, we might see some reorganisation of airlines operating out T1 to 3 across Int and Dom - QF had proposed several times.

As for the lounges - it’ll be interesting to see how big an effect JQ PAX being shown the door post 1 Jul?

Except WSI is adding capacity not taking any capacity away from SYD. To my knowledge no singke airline has announced moving their pax flights from SYD to WSI.

Not yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some LCC do in due course.

But SYD T1 is expected to expand after they can take over the cargo precinct. Maybe that might free up some space to provide better road access also?

 

[LionKing]

I heard today is the WSI testing day? And in the departures indicator board, JQ has indicated a launch of JQ6010 to HKG!?
I wonder if there's any reports from participants that can share here?

 

[HS-TQE]

I heard today is the WSI testing day? And in the departures indicator board, JQ has indicated a launch of JQ6010 to HKG!?
I wonder if there's any reports from participants that can share here?

4 dogit numbers are generally charters or empty positioning runs

 

[SYD]

4 dogit numbers are generally charters or empty positioning runs

or in this case, probably just a dummy/fake flight for the departure board?

 

[moa999]

A couple of posts on airliners.net from one individual

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1510015

Think all the flight numbers were mostly made-up.
SQ202 for example would typically depart 2355 based on posted schedule.

Departures:

NZ166 to Auckland 1150am
SQ202 to Singapore 1220pm
JQ350 to Darwin 1230pm
JQ360 to Gold Coast 1235pm
JQ373 to Melbourne 1240pm
JQ6009 to Cairns 130pm
JQ6010 to Hong Kong 130pm
JQ382 to Perth 230pm
JQ384 to Brisbane 230pm

 

[PineappleSkip]

Some lounge commentary from one of the airliners.net posts by a tester,

I keep asking about the ‘premium lounges’ (confirmed with my own eyes that the directional signage says ‘lounges’ plural….) but no one will talk about them… they are apparently upstairs overlooking the gate lounges, mezzanine style, although there appears to be one single ‘premium lounge’ down a passageway from the main F&B&R area, apparently on the ‘main’ floor. I doubt it would have airside views however.

 

[RooFlyer]

Well Roo was coming from CBD at peak departure time, he would have been best to take the train.

Well, no. I'm not going to cart luggage for a 5 week trip abroad (especially a 4 wheeler!!) the blocks needed to get to a train station when an Uber pulls up in front of the hotel. Daft idea.

Avoiding Monday morning departures is pretty well known from all the capital city airports - domestic golden traingle there are extra flights on Mondays, International is most popular day for Business travellers so always most crowded, flights generally cheaper from Tues too.

Well, gee, I'd avoid Monday morning, except, you know, its when my international flight was leaving. To suggest I should plan my flights around Sydney traffic and Sydney airport's deficiencies is also a daft idea. Believe me, I do my best to avoid Sydney airport, but this particular itinerary left from Sydney on Monday. Go figure.

I’m surprised they’re dropping off at “arrivals”. I suspect they’re not supposed to be doing that and were just trying to dodge the higher floor carpark drop off - which can be quicker than up the ramp during peak hour.

Uber driver said that its a formalised morning thing; there were 'marshals' directing and red cones laid out. If you come from Southern Cross Drive, that's where you'll end up. That's why he took me M8 (and about 12 traffic lights), so we would end up at 'departures'.

Anyway, that's enough of Sydney Airport, in more ways than one.