Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger sector

[MarkD]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

With so many airline management experts on AFF, we should have no trouble with failing airlines, as a pool of expert advice is available here. I will send an email to the Qantas and VA boards and direct them here for advice and guidance

 

[robs12]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Good idea MarkD. Just make sure you mention the bit about status matching us all as a consultancy fee

 

[dk4]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

I know I shouldnt feed the troll, but...

To resort to name calling, in what had been a civilised conversation is offensive, and it is also indicative of the quality of your argument.

With so many airline management experts on AFF, we should have no trouble with failing airlines, as a pool of expert advice is available here.

I would posit that AFF has a pool of management experts from varying industries, and people with broad experiences, posting here: to suggest that only someone from one industry is capable of proffering a view and opinions about that industry, is both naïve and somewhat condescending. Likewise a company that only hires managerial staff from within the pool of its own specific industry, and does not seek expertise from without, is unlikely to ever develop a broad quality pool of critical thinkers, and should be considered poorly run in today's business environment.

 

[cove]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

I had to book a Virgin flight to MEL from PER and back in J and was surprised that one week out they had no seats taken. I had the pick of the A330 when I have zero status now.
Virgin needs something in the sales department.
I am happy to be doing a tester this week and next for my points redemptions.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

I had to book a Virgin flight to MEL from PER and back in J and was surprised that one week out they had no seats taken. I had the pick of the A330 when I have zero status now.
Virgin needs something in the sales department.
I am happy to be doing a tester this week and next for my points redemptions.

Let us know how full the flight actually is though, as you know seats chosen at this stage don't mean too much

I have a QF PER-MEL A333 flight and only 4 seats are chosen and that's in about a week as well (front row is blocked for CLs, so 4 other seats chosen)

Virgin's latest strategy is "cheap upgrades" it does get more revenue in the door but personally I think it just frustrates those who pay far more to get a J seat to know that maybe 1/2 the people around them only paid a fraction that for the J seat

Virgin's problems:

737 J product is a joke, poorly designed and done on the cheap

No IFE, brand new planes coming from the factory and you have to BYO your device (now I have flown lots of QF over the past month MEL-SYD-MEL in both Y and J) and the large majority use the IFE provided by QF. Of course that depends on the product supplied. Overhead TV's I say about 40% use it, based on a quick look around who is using the QF headsets. iPad's about 60% and with seat-back TV's well over 75% use it. Now this includes business people.... which is the exact market that VA needs to steal/keep!

Poor lounges - Hot dogs, hot dogs, and no spirits - The Club is a waste of time, should have made it a Platinum/J lounge instead

Flight changes/cancellations - I know this is subjective, but yet again a friend of mine has been impacted by a cancellation of a flight CHC-MEL. Yes QF cancel flights but they seem to remedy the problem much faster as they have more flights. I have read/seen that QF seem to be sneakily cancelling MEL-SYD-MEL flights here and there


As much as I despise VA, they need to succeed otherwise we'd all be flying Tiger and Jetstar


Again matter of time before EK and SQ run QF and VA

 

[anat0l]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Frankly if the government believes in capitalism and the free market (and perhaps as many mechanisms as it can conceive to bring the budget to surplus again) then it will remove all restrictions on Qantas and perhaps foreign investment and let the reign of true airline deregulation determine what is acceptable by the Australian public.

Virgin is doing whatever it can to get a lever in this war. So be it.

And Virgin has won market share off Qantas. They are doing something right, but I suppose one can argue that the current efforts have reached an equilibrium. Obviously, going hard and fast is not exactly what we are seeing here from Virgin; whether that is a source of frustration to its customers is another thing. The direct competition certainly isn't exactly pushing forward with gusto and the unforgiving of the Russian Red Army in WW2.

Finally, there is no such thing as "too big to fail". If QF does an Ansett, so be it. Tens of thousands of jobs lost (possibly most recovered by Virgin in that instance), national unemployment maybe inches half a notch, but the company failed on its principles of business operation. No government should have to take responsibility for that. That is a tenet (if even unforgiving) of the free market and capitalism. That is why any government's plan to put funds into the car industry for the sake of saving it is anti-capitalist and a foolhardy effort.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

As much as I despise VA, they need to succeed otherwise we'd all be flying Tiger and Jetstar

I agree with some of your criticisms of VA but not all - however ^^^^ this point that you make is what I also think about when trying to give VA some of my business.... looking at the big picture.

And as I'm sure you'd agree with - the price of J class seats would be going in one direction.

 

[ReLoad]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

To resort to name calling, in what had been a civilised conversation is offensive, and it is also indicative of the quality of your argument..

no worries Darryl.

 

[MarkD]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

I would posit that AFF has a pool of management experts from varying industries, and people with broad experiences, posting here: to suggest that only someone from one industry is capable of proffering a view and opinions about that industry, is both naïve and somewhat condescending. Likewise a company that only hires managerial staff from within the pool of its own specific industry, and does not seek expertise from without, is unlikely to ever develop a broad quality pool of critical thinkers, and should be considered poorly run in today's business environment.

So send your resume in if you know how to do it. Seriously sick of bloody know it alls, whinging and moaning like little coughes about how an airline needs to be run. You know best, put your hand up and take the job. Hint though, running an airline has more to it than ensuring some sook gets 4A or 3C every flight, that the lounge has substantially more to offer than hotdogs and soup, the fact that you cannot get spirits to get smashed at someone elses expense (Yes the line every second post by some on here with reference to spirits etc is getting very boring, (And they seem to find it humorous to drink alcohol, how immature) and certainly is something they need to look at, because alcohol dependence is really a serious issue), Priority boarding, and having a coughy moan every time someone gets something and you don't.
Get back onto facebook and play airline manager, or download airbucks and live your fantasy there.

 

[PLANT]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Just give us unlimited wifi at NBN speed ....so we can download a movie while the bloody flight is delayed ;/
Everytime I have used it in a lounge site blocked and slow speed!

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

So send your resume in if you know how to do it. Seriously sick of bloody know it alls, whinging and moaning like little coughes about how an airline needs to be run. You know best, put your hand up and take the job. Hint though, running an airline has more to it than ensuring some sook gets 4A or 3C every flight, that the lounge has substantially more to offer than hotdogs and soup, the fact that you cannot get spirits to get smashed at someone elses expense (Yes the line every second post by some on here with reference to spirits etc is getting very boring, (And they seem to find it humorous to drink alcohol, how immature) and certainly is something they need to look at, because alcohol dependence is really a serious issue), Priority boarding, and having a coughy moan every time someone gets something and you don't.
Get back onto facebook and play airline manager, or download airbucks and live your fantasy there.

So you are saying that Virgin is doing a good job and doesn't need to change anything?

I suggest you don't send in your resume

Man I wish VA has spirits in their lounges

 

[fersea]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

If they want to get the govt business they need to compete on price. With the best fare of the day rules what ever is the cheaper you take. (You can play with your booking a bit which can change what is "best fare of the day " but basically you are locked in on price and if QF have govt Red e-deals they are normally cheaper.

In recent weeks due to me getting the Amex platinum I have gone from never having any status to having lounge access to both so I don't really mind which one I fly but many other public servants have it in their head that QF is so much better.

I flew to Sydney the other week and Virgins little plane (you can see I am an aviation expert!!) was better than the Dash 8. They also gave out the similar fruit juice and muesli biscuit that QF does. Coming home from Melbourne on Friday night they had Weiss ice cream bars which I thought was a great idea. Not sure they go with the beer or wine service but I had had a couple of Peroni's in the very crowded Virgin lounge so didn't need any more.

I am am going to Perth this weekend and I didn't realise to I was booking that virgin do not have a direct CBR - PER service.

 

[PLANT]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Amex platinum...the $1200 worth the lounge access?
Can you guest people in?

 

[fersea]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Amex platinum...the $1200 worth the lounge access?
Can you guest people in?

No certainly not solely for Virgin lounge access but with 80000 points which will turn into 92000 with the 15% offer a free flight a free Accor night, Marco Polo gold, priority pass etc it is not bad. We got it so my girlfriend could also do the OW award which ended up costing her $1500 in taxes, $1200 for the CC and the 54000 points she had.

I just wish I hadn't booked the flights before we got the card. The travel insurance would have saved me about $500. We are going to be overseas for 6 months of the year we have the card so will get benefit.

Yes you can guest one person in on the AMEX platinum into Virgin or using the Marco Polo on one world (inc Qantas) or Priority pass.

 

[nickykim]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

MarKD - am hoping that "...whinging and moaning like little coughes..." is actually referring to some sort of dog behaviour (which as long-term owner of multiple female dogs I haven't actually observed). Else maybe some of us would prefer you to modify your metaphors.

 

[pauly7]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Wow this thread got a little nasty and off topic quickly!

Maybe the front page of the AFR will get things back on topic.

Unsurprisingly QF has come out all guns blazing over the foreign state owned airlines creeping takeover over VA and the cash being slushed into the business - referencing exactly what we are talking about, the disadvantage QF faces with the QF sales act. Is pushing for government action.

Talks loosely about suitors of Emirates (no surprise) and China Southern (gulp).

Some interesting analysis pieces as well as the main article as well. Also a piece on QF and VA's new lounges in LAX.

 

[cove]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

The Qantas Sale agreement still applies but Virgin Australia has slipped through to be mostly foreign owned by Air New Zealand, Etihad,
Singapore Airlines and a Richard Branson company. Nothing to be too alarmed by this seeing it may be a while for VIrgin Australia's business to stabilize this year.
I prefer to have the strength from overseas than have another Ansett style failure where they made losses that the owners could not or would not cover.
The size of the latest raising is larger than anyone would have been expecting so clearly the business plan is for tough trading ahead.
The market will decide who has the best product for them. Right now the share of the business/government market is very important in the struggle for profitable flights.
Share market analysts are now thinking both Qantas and Virgin Australia will struggle to be profitable in their Australian businesses in the next 18 months. Both companies share prices are weak at the moment and that tends to be the indicator of business conditions six to nine months ahead.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

If they want to get the govt business they need to compete on price. With the best fare of the day rules what ever is the cheaper you take. (You can play with your booking a bit which can change what is "best fare of the day " but basically you are locked in on price and if QF have govt Red e-deals they are normally cheaper.

True up to a point; however when I used to work for the Govt I found that, for my normal route, VA only have two flights a day against QL's 5 or 6, so the best fare of the day may not be as relevant, especially when VA's last flight leaves 2 hours before your meeting ends.

Although on one occasion the Govt's travel agent suggested that I stay overnight in Sydney (at >$250 for accommodation and meals) so that I could take the cheaper flight the next day (saving about $20). Love Govt thinking and stupid rules. JV

 

[anat0l]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

Unsurprisingly QF has come out all guns blazing over the foreign state owned airlines creeping takeover over VA and the cash being slushed into the business - referencing exactly what we are talking about, the disadvantage QF faces with the QF sales act. Is pushing for government action.

Talks loosely about suitors of Emirates (no surprise) and China Southern (gulp).

Some interesting analysis pieces as well as the main article as well. Also a piece on QF and VA's new lounges in LAX.

Boring! All's fair (fare?) in love and war... that's the free market, notwithstanding that the Qantas Sales Act is arguably (and I say only "arguably") anti-capitalist / anti-free-market.

That said, without a change in regulation, I don't see how QF can get out of this one, except perhaps shut the Australian arm and move significant portions of it overseas, incorporating it there. Alternatively, close Qantas and transfer all the assets and equity to a new airline that is free from the Qantas Sales Act; that said, the new airline will unlikely be able to be called Qantas. I don't know if either of these would breach the Qantas Sales Act.

 

[Sethor]

Re: Virgin's war chest to attract the lucrative corporate and government passenger se

The Qantas Sale agreement still applies but Virgin Australia has slipped through to be mostly foreign owned by Air New Zealand, Etihad,
Singapore Airlines and a Richard Branson company.

How does VA get around the foreign ownership laws? Going off this article after capital raising shareholdings will be Virgin Group 10%, EY 22.2% & SQ 22.1%, so 54.3% in foreign hands (excluding NZ).