Virgin Australia flights to Doha

[AIRwin]

Looks like QF1 was lining behind VA1

 

[Lucass]

I did a dummy booking earlier, and 28/42 business seats were booked and about 120/312 economy seats booked. Not bad for a first flight. Also does anyone know how Qatar and Virgin split the costs and profits for these flights?

 

[aamslfc]

I did a dummy booking earlier, and 28/42 business seats were booked and about 120/312 economy seats booked. Not bad for a first flight.

I wonder how many of those were actual revenue pax versus freebie/promotional seats occupied by the media and influencers...

 

[Lucass]

I wonder how many of those were actual revenue pax versus freebie/promotional seats occupied by the media and influencers...

True, good point

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

I did a dummy booking earlier, and 28/42 business seats were booked and about 120/312 economy seats booked. Not bad for a first flight. Also does anyone know how Qatar and Virgin split the costs and profits for these flights?

It's a wet lease, which typically just involves a flat fee based on block hours. That usually covers the basics of aircraft, crew, maintenance, insurance, etc., and potentially some operating costs depending on what the two parties decide to include.

I suspect that's what VA is doing here and, if so, Qatar's revenue is guaranteed and VA then carries the risk of loss but also keeps all the profit once costs are covered. Given Qatar has a stake in VA, it's possible they've set it up differently, but I doubt it.

 

[Lucass]

I just saw the time slots for the wet lease flights..... They all have such long periods on the ground before going back to Doha, they could fit in a PER return from Melbourne or a BNE-SYD/MEL return. I wonder if they will eventually do this if they can train VA crew on the 777s

 

[AIRwin]

They all have such long periods on the ground before going back to Doha, they could fit in a PER return from Melbourne or a BNE-SYD/MEL return.

Domestic terminal may not be able to accommodate 777?

 

[markis10]

Domestic terminal may not be able to accommodate 777?

Recalibration of the NIGS etc would not be an issue, getting CASA approval for a wet lease domestic op ala bonza, not so easy

 

[Lucass]

Recalibration of the NIGS etc would not be an issue, getting CASA approval for a wet lease domestic op ala bonza, not so easy

So australian domestic terminals can fit a 777?

 

[simmomelb]

So australian domestic terminals can fit a 777?

Remember the VA 777 that used to fly from Perth to the East Coast, offering "The Business"?

 

[Lucass]

Remember the VA 777 that used to fly from Perth to the East Coast, offering "The Business"?

I thought that was on a330s not triple 777s

 

[markis10]

So australian domestic terminals can fit a 777?

There are a number of things to be considered, NIGS, aerobridge support, and pavement capability, but generally no issue, for instance the standoff bays 125/127 are 777 rated today opposite the terminal in Syd

 

[justinbrett]

I just saw the time slots for the wet lease flights..... They all have such long periods on the ground before going back to Doha, they could fit in a PER return from Melbourne or a BNE-SYD/MEL return. I wonder if they will eventually do this if they can train VA crew on the 777s

It’s not like it would be free. VA would have to pay an hourly lease cost for flying the aircraft on the domestic routes.

Sounds like an incredibly fast way to get to VA3.

 

[Bundy Bear]

How about a SYD-AKL return, and BNE-AKL return like Emirates did.

For now VA just need to stick to getting one part of the puzzle bedded down and operating smoothly.

 

[aamslfc]

How about a SYD-AKL return, and BNE-AKL return like Emirates did.

For now VA just need to stick to getting one part of the puzzle bedded down and operating smoothly.

Agreed, that would be a sensible option... plus, they would instantly have the best hard product on the route. The SYD timings are a bit iffy, but MEL and BNE are eminently doable.

Can't imagine it'd be any more expensive than parking the planes all day at the airport.

 

[HS-TQE]

VA were very persistent on not returning to the main NZ cities. VA are wanting to spend very little to no CapEx on New Zealand operations through their glorified travel agent partnership with Air NZ.

Considering that Virgin Australia and Air New Zealand were rumoured to expand the partnership to a bilateral one in December 2024 but nothing eventuated suggests Virgin Australia are probably using their position as a glorified travel agent to squeeze as much commission as possible from Air NZ.

I don't see VA using QR to return to Tasman (plus the JV doesn't cover New Zealand), I'd suspect it's cheaper for the QR/VA JV to leave the aircraft on the ground in SYD/BNE than fly a Trans-Tasman leg inbetween.

 

[justinbrett]

How about a SYD-AKL return, and BNE-AKL return like Emirates did.

For now VA just need to stick to getting one part of the puzzle bedded down and operating smoothly.

VA doesn’t even want to fly 737s on those routes.

Can't imagine it'd be any more expensive than parking the planes all day at the airport.

Are you serious? The lease costs would be in the ballpark of $30K/h. Parking at international is $50/15 minutes.

 

[Lucass]

It’s not like it would be free. VA would have to pay an hourly lease cost for flying the aircraft on the domestic routes.

Sounds like an incredibly fast way to get to VA3.

Yes that makes sense. If they eventually dry lease QR aircraft it may be easier. I feel like the 787-8 would be good for Virgin, Qatar will probably start looking at retiring some as they like to keep a young fleet, 787-8 has similar capacity to their a330-200s which VA used to have, -8 would also be good for Asia routes like Tokyo etc

 

[aamslfc]

Are you serious? The lease costs would be in the ballpark of $30K/h. Parking at international is $50/15 minutes.

Thanks for the snark

I hadn't realised the cost differential was that great - particularly as EK made a huge song-and-dance about how trans-tasman flying was cheaper than parking all day - but if that's the case then I'd also be questioning how the Doha flights are going to be remotely profitable for VA.

 

[HS-TQE]

Thanks for the snark

I hadn't realised the cost differential was that great - particularly as EK made a huge song-and-dance about how trans-tasman flying was cheaper than parking all day - but if that's the case then I'd also be questioning how the Doha flights are going to be remotely profitable for VA.

It's a JV, similar to Virgin 1.0's old JVs with EY and DL, thus costs (and revenue) are likely to be shared between the partners.